3.Roberta Thornsberry — Proffer (Part 1)
180 linesROBERTA THORNSBERRY, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Once you're seated, speak up loud and clear, state your full name, spelling your last.
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: My name is Roberta Thornsberry, T-H-O-R-N-S-B-E-R-R-Y.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SECOR:
CASEY SECOR: Hi, Ms. Thornsberry.
CASEY SECOR: How are you?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Just fine.
CASEY SECOR: Make sure you speak close enough to that microphone.
THE COURT: She just cut them back on. They were off.
CASEY SECOR: Ms. Thornsberry, the Court Reporter has to write down everything you say, so if I ask you a question and you say uh-huh instead of yes, just remember you have to say yes so she can write it down, okay? I want to talk to you a little bit about your early life and I'm going to go through it very quickly because I know it's upsetting. And then we'll get on to some other things and a lot more conversation. Is that okay?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: That's okay.
CASEY SECOR: You were originally from Kentucky, right?
CASEY SECOR: Born in 1951?
CASEY SECOR: And your mother's name was Bernadine?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Bernadine.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am.
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Maloney.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am.
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: When she died.
CASEY SECOR: And she left you and your siblings at an orphanage when you were three years old, correct?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: She didn't leave us in an orphanage, she just left us. We ended up in the orphanage.
CASEY SECOR: You wound up in the orphanage. You were there in the orphanage for about five years, right?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Three, four, somewhere in there I think.
CASEY SECOR: When you -- your mother eventually came and picked you up from the orphanage, right?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: That's correct.
CASEY SECOR: And at that time, she was with a man named Ted Montaine, that was her partner at that time in her life?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: When she picked you up from -- to bring you home from the orphanage, you were eight years old, right?
CASEY SECOR: And Ted Montaine was essentially your stepfather?
CASEY SECOR: And he started sexually molesting you the day that you came home from the orphanage?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: The very next morning.
CASEY SECOR: And he also sexually abused your sisters?
CASEY SECOR: He also physically abused your mother, right?
CASEY SECOR: When you were age 11, your stepfather, Ted Montaine, impregnated you, correct?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: And you gave birth to Tim Jones, Sr. when you were 12 years old, right?
CASEY SECOR: This man who had been your stepfather after Tim -- we'll call him Tim, Sr. You call him Big Tim?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: I do.
CASEY SECOR: You call him Big Tim, okay. Even though he was little then?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: This man, Ted Montaine, took you and Big Tim away from your mother and kept you on the run throughout the United States for a few years, isn't that right?
CASEY SECOR: And he actually created paperwork at some point and married you, even though you didn't have a --
CASEY SECOR: And as part of living with him, he forced you to do things that no child or woman should have to do, as we discussed?
CASEY SECOR: And you felt that was a way for him to control and watch over you?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: It was.
CASEY SECOR: You eventually, thankfully, escaped from this man, Ted Montaine?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: I did.
CASEY SECOR: And you found who ended up being the love of your life, Larry Thornsberry?
CASEY SECOR: You and Larry, your relationship was tumultuous at some times, right?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: It was rocky.
CASEY SECOR: You got divorced, at least, once?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Yes, I did.
CASEY SECOR: And married a man named Phillip Caliendo at one point?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: I did.
CASEY SECOR: And then divorced him and married Larry again?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: That's right.
CASEY SECOR: And you're still with Larry today, right?
CASEY SECOR: Part of your life when you got together with Larry involved drinking and drugs sometimes?
CASEY SECOR: And sometimes your relationship was violent?
CASEY SECOR: And one time, Big Tim saved you from killing yourself, isn't that right?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: And that happened because you had intentionally taken an overdose of drugs with the intention of killing yourself?
CASEY SECOR: And he came looking for you outside and he called your name?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: He did.
CASEY SECOR: And you were in the bushes?
CASEY SECOR: And you called back to him when you heard him calling your name?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Yes, sir.
CASEY SECOR: I'm going to jump ahead and get to before Little Tim, you call him Little Tim, correct?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: I did.
CASEY SECOR: He's the son of Big Tim and Cynthia, right?
CASEY SECOR: When Big Tim and Cynthia were together, they were living with you, is that right?
CASEY SECOR: And when Cynthia and Big Tim were awaiting the birth of Timmy, tell us how Cynthia's behavior started to change?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: She would go off and stay to herself. Tim would come in and ask me, where's Cindy? I would say, she's downstairs, she never left. And he says, well, she's not there. Then he would find out that she had climbed out a window and got in the corner. She cut all her clothes up and hide in the closet. Just, you know, crazy things. She was crazy as a bed bug.
CASEY SECOR: Timmy was eventually born, right?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Yes, sir.
CASEY SECOR: And they were still living with you?
CASEY SECOR: And after Timmy was born, how -- if you would, tell us how Cynthia interacted with Timmy as an infant?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: She didn't really act like a mother. She would be in bed. He would be screaming and crying. She wouldn't let me in the door. I would send my little boy through a closet that would go into the other area and open the door. I would go in, Timmy would be laying in the bed drenched in the urine. And she would tell me, he's my kid, leave him alone. And I'm like, no, he needs dry clothes on.
CASEY SECOR: Do you remember her holding him and cuddling him as a child?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: I think there was some times she did, but for the most part, no, she -- no, she didn't.
CASEY SECOR: Do you remember what she would say to you when he would cry about how she wished he wouldn't cry?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: She wished he'd just shut the fuck up.
CASEY SECOR: That's when he was just barely --
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: -- young --
CASEY SECOR: -- yes ma'am. In terms of other bizarre things, at least in your perspective, I think you told me bizarre, bizarre things that she did to Timmy in terms of clothing and food and --
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: It would be 90 degrees outside and she would put him in flannel shirts and a tee shirt. And I'd be telling, you know, Cindy, it's hot out there. His body needs to be covered. She would give him laxatives continuously because his body had to be cleansed. I mean, the baby had no control over his -- he had no control over his bowels. I mean, he would just be standing there and just water would come out.
CASEY SECOR: Do you remember her withholding food from him?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Oh, yeah, she never wanted him to be fat. She couldn't have a fat kid.
CASEY SECOR: Did you -- well, you told me you got to the point where you felt it was unsafe for Timmy to be with Cynthia?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Oh, definitely. Definitely, yes.
CASEY SECOR: And there were times that she would leave the house with him at night and no one would no where she was. And there were some things that Timmy started doing, his behavior that concerned you and concerned you about how he was being treated by Cynthia when no one else was around, is that right?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: I was very concerned.
CASEY SECOR: Cynthia and Tim get pregnant again, right?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: And they're still living with you?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: They had their own apartment at this time.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. That second pregnancy, Cynthia got almost to full term, right?
CASEY SECOR: And then tell us what happened.
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: She was at my house with Little Tim and we were just visiting. And then she went to the bathroom and she called me in there and she was just -- you know, she was laughing. And I'm like, what's the matter? And she says, give me your hand. She took my hand. She put it between her legs and she says, I'm having this baby. I'm like, oh, my God, let me call. She says, I'm having this baby right now. So, you know, hearing stories because my husband's grandmother was a midwife, I know you have to keep the legs separated and from having kids myself to keep the baby from, you know, being crushed. So I'm like, get on the floor, Cindy. And, you know, I'm between her legs. And I'm telling my five-year-old, Call 911. Get the phone, dial 911. And all of a sudden, blood just started gushing at me. And 911, they came and they took her to the hospital. She actually gave birth to this baby, but it was dead. But I always had a feeling that she did something.
CASEY SECOR: Did something to --
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: I expressed my feelings to Big Tim and my husband. I said, Tim, I really believe she did something to cause that, just the way she acted. It was strange.
CASEY SECOR: What was her demeanor when this was happening in the bathroom? Was she upset and crying?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: No, she was laughing.
CASEY SECOR: And that child was actually named even though he died?
CASEY SECOR: That was William?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: William.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. And it's your belief that she did something to herself or she did something to try to harm --
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: I think she put something inside of her. I can't swear to it because I didn't see it, but just --
CASEY SECOR: I understand.
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: -- everything indicated it.
CASEY SECOR: Cynthia eventually disappears when Timmy was about three years old, is that right?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: She came back after she had William and that's when she really went off the charts. And my son had her put in a mental hospital.
CASEY SECOR: How long did that last?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Not very long because he was young and he loved her and he signed her back out. And then she came and she took Little Tim and disappeared with him. It was back and forth then.
CASEY SECOR: And eventually, at one point --
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Tim would get him back. Yeah, he would find him and he would get him back. And then she came to my house, her and her sister, and they were going to take him that day and my daughter actually intervened. The police was there. Tim had to come home from work. They arrested Cindy and her sister and he got them out of jail.
CASEY SECOR: And that was a fight over Timmy?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: That was a fight trying to save Tim from them, yes, sir.
CASEY SECOR: And --
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: We would not let her take Little Tim.
CASEY SECOR: And Cynthia's sister that was there, she actually physically took Timmy and crawled out a window and tried to flee?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Yes, she did. And my daughter physically catched her and took him away from her.
CASEY SECOR: And then Cynthia does ultimately disappear, right?
CASEY SECOR: And you become the primary caregiver?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Only when he could find Timmy because she would keep him hid here and there. I mean, you know, we would have him and then she would take him. And then, finally, it just ended and Tim got complete custody of him, I think when he was like two, a little over two.
CASEY SECOR: And once Big Tim got custody of him, that meant you got custody of him?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: I took care of him when Tim was working, yes.
CASEY SECOR: And as Timmy is growing up in your household, there are still issues of drugs and drinking and violence in your home sometimes?
CASEY SECOR: And those are things that Timmy was sometimes exposed to, right?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Tried not to, but he was exposed.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. And police came to the house about people fighting sometimes?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: People came to the house about people shooting guns at one another sometimes?
CASEY SECOR: Police came to the house about drug possession and drug dealing at the house?
CASEY SECOR: Now, I know in your family, sometimes people fight. And you've told me in the past that one of the strengths in your family is that you get in fights and sometimes they're very serious and very heated and angry, sometimes even violent, but y'all get over it quickly?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Right. Very forgiving.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. Who in your family didn't have that strength to get over it?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Little Tim.
CASEY SECOR: Do you have any idea why? What do you think, why is it?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: He was just -- he was always different. He was always smarter. He was always -- he had the right answer. He didn't like the food we liked. You know, he was just -- he had his own little way. But, I mean, not in a bad, I'm not saying it in a bad way --
CASEY SECOR: I understand.
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: He was just so special, you know. He could do everything.
CASEY SECOR: Did he seem -- in terms of him not being able to get over the contention and sometime --
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: When he got mad at you, he didn't talk to you for a while.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. How about as he's growing up, did he seem to have a lot of friends?
CASEY SECOR: Do you remember --
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: He was a loner. Played by himself. He didn't need friends. I mean, he had birthday parties, but like I said, he didn't have to have friends because we had so many in the family that, you know, it was a party with just our family.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am.
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: With the children. But no, I don't remember Tim ever really having -- he had one friend, one little friend -- I can't remember his name, but he had one friend that he had.
CASEY SECOR: How about him wanting attention? Did he seem like somebody that wanted attention?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: Oh, he thrived on attention.
CASEY SECOR: Did he seem to want to know about his mother?
ROBERTA THORNSBERRY: All the time.