9.Adam Creech — Cross (Part 4)
257 linesMR. HUBBARD: Thank you, Your Honor. CONTINUE CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. HUBBARD:
MR. HUBBARD: Detective -- or now Sergeant, back then, it was Detective, right?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Okay. I don't want to offend you. You work for that Sergeant, right?
ADAM CREECH: I'll answer to anything.
MR. HUBBARD: Okay. Back on September 8th, 2014, in your conversation with the Defendant, did he bring up the topic of Scooby Snax?
ADAM CREECH: He did bring up Scooby Snax.
MR. HUBBARD: Was part of that conversation, this is a legal drug, it's not an illegal drug?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. I previously testified he was very specific to point out the legality of it.
MR. HUBBARD: So it appeared important enough for him to make sure you understood that?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, it did.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, during this conversation when you're confronting him about the children, you said that's when things got emotional. You had him calmed down, but when you confront him about the children, where they are, he gets emotional?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. As previously mentioned, he was already a little emotional over his mother, too.
MR. HUBBARD: I think you said something about it was like he was trying to expel nervous energy?
ADAM CREECH: That's what it appeared to be.
MR. HUBBARD: Okay. Now, going to what he said that night what happened October [sic] 28th, 2014 and he talks about Nahtahn and messing with the outlets and he's just trying to get to him. And he confronts him, you remember that part?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: And he says he PT's him, is that right?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: He spanks him?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: And he hits him?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. He didn't go more specific than that, but, yes.
MR. HUBBARD: That's as far as he went in any details?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: And after, in his words, Nahtahn is deceased?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, that was the word he used, was that he was deceased.
MR. HUBBARD: He didn't give you any -- he didn't make any statement about my, God, Nahtahn's dead?
ADAM CREECH: No, he immediately jumped into the idea that he heard these voices telling him he needed to deal with the other children.
MR. HUBBARD: Well, let me ask you about that. Wasn't the first one he heard, Tim, you're F'd?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Not Nahtahn, my gosh, you're dead, but Tim, you're F'd?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. And he talked about how nobody would believe him that Nahtahn is an accident, so he had to kill the other children and go on the run.
MR. HUBBARD: And now, as an investigator, you also realize that prior to Nahtahn becoming deceased, Amber had actually called during this PT'ing process, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. I don't know if she called during or before, but it was right around that timeframe.
MR. HUBBARD: Do you remember her saying how Nahtahn was gasping for air --
MR. MADSEN: Judge, objection.
THE COURT: Your objection?
MR. MADSEN: The Solicitor can't testify as to what somebody said.
THE COURT: Rephrase your question.
MR. HUBBARD: Based on what Amber said, did you have -- let me rephrase it just totally. Do you remember the words of Nahtahn to his mom, Mom, I didn't mean to do it?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, I do recall that.
MR. HUBBARD: Do you remember Mr. Jones being upset because he's been trying to get that out of Nahtahn, right?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Some admission?
ADAM CREECH: He repeatedly repeated to us that he wanted him to, "come off of it."
MR. HUBBARD: And he worked at it and worked at it and worked at it and worked at it and couldn't get Nahtahn to say I'm sorry, I did something wrong?
ADAM CREECH: For hours, according to Tim.
MR. HUBBARD: But Amber makes one quick phone call and this little six-year-old says, Mom, I didn't mean to do it. Is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: And Tim Jones, at that point, slams the phone -- well, first, he tells her, Why do you always take up for the kids. Right?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: He tells her to F off and he slams that phone down. Right?
ADAM CREECH: Right.
MR. HUBBARD: At that point, no other adult walking on this planet ever had any communication with those kids. That was it. That line was cut. Is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: So now it's just Tim Jones and the kids, according to Tim Jones?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, by his own clear admission.
MR. HUBBARD: And the kid that was the focus of it all was Nahtahn?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, he repeatedly indicated that Nahtahn was the focal point of all of this.
MR. HUBBARD: And when he worked him and spanked him and hit on him, sometime during the process, in his words, Nahtahn becomes deceased. Correct?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, he also tells you he's got a phone, but he doesn't call 911. Why?
ADAM CREECH: He indicated that his immediate concerns were --
MR. MADSEN: I would object, that calls for speculation.
MR. HUBBARD: He told him. That's what I'm asking, what he said.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. HUBBARD: I'll rephrase it.
THE COURT: You can ask that.
MR. HUBBARD: What does Tim Jones say is the reason why he didn't use his phone to call 911?
ADAM CREECH: Because nobody would believe him.
MR. HUBBARD: And?
ADAM CREECH: I believe his exact words were something along the lines of, "You're fucked now, Tim."
MR. HUBBARD: Okay. Now, as an investigator, after that fact, after this, after your investigation -- after your interrogation or interview with him, much later, do you find that he actually downloaded a YouTube site right after Nahtahn became deceased?
ADAM CREECH: Yes. He told us he killed the later four children, I think, around 11 p.m. and he downloaded the American History X video, I believe, an hour or two before that.
MR. HUBBARD: And the scene specifically in American History X that he downloads is what?
ADAM CREECH: It's a -- I've seen the movie. It's a pretty graphic male-on-male prison rape scene in the shower, if I remember correctly.
MR. HUBBARD: So instead of calling 911, we have evidence that he turns to YouTube and watches that?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Then his attention turns to those other four children?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, it does.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, let me stop you here for a moment. If Mr. Jones had done something and Nahtahn became deceased, using his words, and he ran out of that house and just left those other kids, if he had just run, what would you as an investigator -- what are you over right now?
ADAM CREECH: Special victim's unit.
MR. HUBBARD: What would you and your unit do with those other four kids?
MR. MADSEN: Objection. I think that's a hypothetical. It calls for speculation.
MR. HUBBARD: No, it's police work.
MR. MADSEN: It's certainly not relevant.
THE COURT: Rephrase that question because that didn't happen here.
MR. HUBBARD: If those kids, those four children, Merah, Elias, Gabriel and Abigail, had been found alive in the home and Nahtahn was the only one dead, is your department equipped for investigation using young kids?
ADAM CREECH: We are. I have a very experienced team when it comes to those specific types of crimes.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, would you have interviewed them or how do you interview them?
ADAM CREECH: We don't interview children directly, especially that age.
MR. MADSEN: Again, we're talking about speculation.
MR. HUBBARD: This is what they did. I asked what he does. No speculation.
MR. MADSEN: But we're talking about a hypothetical that's not even this case.
THE COURT: Yeah, I tend to agree with you.
MR. HUBBARD: I have a point, Judge, if it gets to --
THE COURT: All right. Sustain the objection because I stymied them on a relevant matter that's come into play later on an exhibit. So let's move on.
MR. HUBBARD: I'll move on.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, confronting Mr. Jones, this is the man who we kept hearing, said he wanted to do the right thing at the end of that interview on the 9th, correct? Find those bodies, right?
ADAM CREECH: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: But, of course, that's after he confessed?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: And he really had nothing else to lose at that point, right?
ADAM CREECH: No. In fact, he and I had a conversation, I think, right before we went to find the bodies where we talk about that specifically where he says that he knows we couldn't prosecute him without the bodies, but he's going to take anyways. And we had a bit of a talk about how that's not true. With everything we had at that point, it would probably be a case against him regardless. It was just the right thing to bring those children home because it's absolutely what they deserved.
MR. HUBBARD: Prior to him actually admitting what he had done, isn't it true, he lied and he lied and he lied about what he had done and where those kids were?
ADAM CREECH: He did. As I previously mentioned, I was actually almost directly privy to the one when he was -- I was hearing him in the background over that first phone call with Under-Sheriff Patterson, I heard him yelling in the background that -- or talking in the background, I think they were pretty close to him, that his kids were with friends in South Carolina. And they already told me that he had said he had no kids. And then came the Wal-Mart story about throwing them out at Wal-Mart because he was afraid of them. I think that story took a couple of different versions before he finally told us that he had killed them.
MR. HUBBARD: And Sergeant Creech, it turned out, it was true at some point, he did go to a Wal-Mart, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: He did.
MR. HUBBARD: What was the purpose of going to Wal-Mart?
ADAM CREECH: To buy implements to assist in getting rid of the bodies.
MR. HUBBARD: You've seen a video. I want to show you two still shots from that, State's ID 200 and 201. Do you recognize that as from the video?
ADAM CREECH: I do. I've seen these particular still shots before and the videos previously shown in this court.
MR. HUBBARD: I offer this into evidence.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. MADSEN: Judge, we just renew our pretrial objection.
THE COURT: Okay. Pretrial objection, you're protected. It will be admitted subject to the objection. What numbers are those, Joy?
COURT REPORTER: 200 and 201.
(WHEREUPON, State's Exhibit numbers 200 and 201 were admitted into evidence.)
MR. HUBBARD: State's 201, do you see Mr. Jones standing at the register actually making the purchase of these items?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: State's 200, back it up a little bit. Do you see Mr. Jones walking out with his purchase?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, when he was initially confronted about this purchase and about these items, isn't it true he said the jab saw, which is in that bucket, the jab saw, he was just going to use it for limbing?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, he said it was for cutting limbs, even though you wouldn't use a saw like that for cutting limbs.
MR. HUBBARD: The muriatic acid, which is in that bucket, he was going to use for etching PVC pipe?
ADAM CREECH: Yeah, he said etching PVC. And we never asked him to get more specific than that.
MR. HUBBARD: But he lied?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: He later admits what he's doing in that video. He took time to shop, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, he did.
MR. HUBBARD: And he took time to shop for items so he could dismember and dispose of his children?
ADAM CREECH: He later, that's what those items -- the purpose was of those items.
MR. HUBBARD: Y'all confronted him with a handwritten note out of his car, State's 79?
ADAM CREECH: We did.
MR. HUBBARD: When y'all initially confronted him with this note, I believe he admitted it was his handwriting, right?
ADAM CREECH: He did, right away.
MR. HUBBARD: But isn't it true he said he couldn't remember what it was about?
ADAM CREECH: He did. He said he didn't know what any of the note was about initially.
MR. HUBBARD: And he ends up admitting he lied again, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: He does. He later tells us that those were some of the plans he had come up with.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, we've seen some of these items. Number one, you see where it says head to campground?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: Melt bodies, do you see that?
ADAM CREECH: I do, yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Sand bones to dust or small pieces, you see that?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, let me get my little pointer here, this right here, number two, what does this say right here?
ADAM CREECH: It says loose ends.
MR. HUBBARD: You see a name Terry?
ADAM CREECH: I do. That would be in reference to Terry Jackson, Sr., his landlord, and actually somebody I'm very familiar with from my patrol days.
MR. MADSEN: I would object to speculation. It just says Terry.
MR. HUBBARD: I'll ask him a specific question.
THE COURT: All right. If he knows and he makes the question more specific, then he can answer it.
MR. HUBBARD: In your investigation, were you able to find anyone with the name Terry that had a link to Tim Jones, Jr.?
ADAM CREECH: I did. His landlord was Terry Jackson, Sr.
MR. HUBBARD: The name Christine, were you able to find anybody by that name that had a link to Tim Jones, Jr.?
ADAM CREECH: His babysitter at the time was Christine Ehlke.
MR. HUBBARD: The lady who testified earlier in this case?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: What is this, a Jim Mc -- Intel?
ADAM CREECH: That would be what I would presume to be a reference to Jim McConnell, which would have been Timothy's supervisor at Intel.
MR. HUBBARD: What is this here, SGE?
ADAM CREECH: That would appear to be a reference to Saxe Gotha Elementary School where Elias, Merah and Nahtahn were enrolled.
MR. HUBBARD: What about this part, BGC?
ADAM CREECH: Probably a reference to the boys and girls club where those same three children were enrolled in after-school activities.
MR. HUBBARD: Is that where they were picked up on August the 28th?
ADAM CREECH: It is, as that sign-in sheet that was previously introduced shows.
MR. HUBBARD: That was on that video --
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: -- where you see him picking up his kids? Anywhere in that video show that he's scared?
ADAM CREECH: No, it doesn't.
MR. HUBBARD: What is this right underneath that?
ADAM CREECH: It says pediatrician.
MR. HUBBARD: Pediatricians work on adults or kids?
ADAM CREECH: Children.
MR. HUBBARD: Whose name do you see here?
ADAM CREECH: Amber.
MR. HUBBARD: Do we know who she is?
ADAM CREECH: Would be his ex-wife.
MR. HUBBARD: Then can you make this out?
ADAM CREECH: I can't read that, so I'm not sure what that says.
MR. HUBBARD: But all these folks are loose ends, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Bills. On this same page he's got what he's going to do to his children, he's got bills. What's TWC?
ADAM CREECH: Time Warner Cable.
MR. HUBBARD: SCE&G?
ADAM CREECH: South Carolina Electric and Gas Cooperative.
MR. HUBBARD: What's underneath that?
ADAM CREECH: Post office.
MR. HUBBARD: What's underneath that?
ADAM CREECH: Car.
MR. HUBBARD: Had his car been paid off yet?
ADAM CREECH: To be honest, I'm not sure.
MR. HUBBARD: Fair enough. What does it say underneath car?
ADAM CREECH: Bank accounts.
MR. HUBBARD: So he's got loose ends and bills on the same sheet where he's going to dismember and dissolve, sand his children, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, when you're investigating a case that involves flight and where you're having to go after somebody, do you look for anything where anybody might take disguise or hide?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: What do we see up here on the right-hand side of this note?
ADAM CREECH: Tattoos.
MR. HUBBARD: What's this?
ADAM CREECH: Glasses.
MR. HUBBARD: What's this, can you make that out?
ADAM CREECH: I'm not sure. It may say hats, but I'm not sure.
MR. HUBBARD: Okay.
ADAM CREECH: And hunting gear.
MR. HUBBARD: Hunting gear. Let me show you what's in State's 132, also, found in his car. Do you see more notes?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, there are.
MR. HUBBARD: And again, if somebody goes outside of South Carolina and you have to go after them, are you looking for any item that might assist them in hiding?
ADAM CREECH: We would.
MR. HUBBARD: What's this word?
ADAM CREECH: Camping supplies.
MR. HUBBARD: Do you see underneath there?
ADAM CREECH: I believe it says gas and jug, maybe.
MR. HUBBARD: Okay.
ADAM CREECH: Muriatic acid.
MR. HUBBARD: Muriatic acid.
ADAM CREECH: Tent.
MR. HUBBARD: Okay.
ADAM CREECH: Charcoal, steaks, grill.
MR. HUBBARD: Can you make that out?
ADAM CREECH: Yeah, I'm not sure what that is.
MR. HUBBARD: What about underneath that?
ADAM CREECH: I'm not sure what that is either.
MR. HUBBARD: So again, these items are relevant to you?
ADAM CREECH: They are.
MR. HUBBARD: And over here, needs, is that what I see right there?
ADAM CREECH: That does say needs.
MR. HUBBARD: What's that word right there?
ADAM CREECH: Cash.
MR. HUBBARD: What denomination am I looking at as far as money?
ADAM CREECH: $3500, 401K and 6,000K.
MR. HUBBARD: And then what are we looking at?
ADAM CREECH: Clothes, four pants, eight socks, eight underwear, two shorts and something and ten shirts.
MR. HUBBARD: Does it look like a plan?
ADAM CREECH: It does appear to be a plan.
MR. HUBBARD: Going back to the note. You made note of the day one, day two, day three?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Burn up bodies, sand down bones, dissolve and discard?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: And a smiley face?
ADAM CREECH: And a smiley face.
MR. HUBBARD: This is a man several days later who said he was about doing the right thing?
ADAM CREECH: It is.
THE COURT: All right, Solicitor, is that a good stopping point? You got through those two exhibits. Can we stop for the day?
MR. HUBBARD: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: And resume in the morning? Y'all go to the jury room, put your stuff up. Don't talk about the case. Enjoy your evening. See you in the morning. We'll start at 9 o'clock sharp.
(Whereupon, the jury was excused from the courtroom for the day.)
THE COURT: All right. We're done for the day. Let me make a couple comments to everybody. This is a very emotional case. Be aware of that. Both sides are emotional and forget arguing legal points. I'm going to suggest, just for my benefit so that I don't feel like I'm refereeing a boxing match as opposed to a trial, Judge, that's not a proper question or, Judge, that's an improper question under the rules rather than it's illegal or wrong. That drawing -- from both sides. And it's not one side or the other, I've heard it from both sides. But improper question or not a proper under the rules, something along those lines and I think the, I'm going to call it venom, won't come out so quick. This is late in the day and that's when it happens. It happened yesterday late in the day, happened late in the day today. Be aware of that. Okay?
MR. HUBBARD: Yes, sir. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: So that's for everybody. Nobody in particular, nobody being left out. That's to everybody involved. Y'all are doing fine, but let's be aware that's what we're dealing with, okay?
MR. YOUNG: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Thank y'all.
(Whereupon, the trial will resume the next morning at 9:00 a.m.)