9.Adam Creech — Cross (Part 4)
254 linesRICK HUBBARD: Thank you, Your Honor. CONTINUE CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. HUBBARD:
RICK HUBBARD: Detective -- or now Sergeant, back then, it was Detective, right?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: Okay. I don't want to offend you. You work for that Sergeant, right?
ADAM CREECH: I'll answer to anything.
RICK HUBBARD: Okay. Back on September 8th, 2014, in your conversation with the Defendant, did he bring up the topic of Scooby Snax?
ADAM CREECH: He did bring up Scooby Snax.
RICK HUBBARD: Was part of that conversation, this is a legal drug, it's not an illegal drug?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. I previously testified he was very specific to point out the legality of it.
RICK HUBBARD: So it appeared important enough for him to make sure you understood that?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, it did.
RICK HUBBARD: Now, during this conversation when you're confronting him about the children, you said that's when things got emotional. You had him calmed down, but when you confront him about the children, where they are, he gets emotional?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. As previously mentioned, he was already a little emotional over his mother, too.
RICK HUBBARD: I think you said something about it was like he was trying to expel nervous energy?
ADAM CREECH: That's what it appeared to be.
RICK HUBBARD: Okay. Now, going to what he said that night what happened October [sic] 28th, 2014 and he talks about Nahtahn and messing with the outlets and he's just trying to get to him. And he confronts him, you remember that part?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
RICK HUBBARD: And he says he PT's him, is that right?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: He spanks him?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: And he hits him?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. He didn't go more specific than that, but, yes.
RICK HUBBARD: That's as far as he went in any details?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: And after, in his words, Nahtahn is deceased?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, that was the word he used, was that he was deceased.
RICK HUBBARD: He didn't give you any -- he didn't make any statement about my, God, Nahtahn's dead?
ADAM CREECH: No, he immediately jumped into the idea that he heard these voices telling him he needed to deal with the other children.
RICK HUBBARD: Well, let me ask you about that. Wasn't the first one he heard, Tim, you're F'd?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
RICK HUBBARD: Not Nahtahn, my gosh, you're dead, but Tim, you're F'd?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. And he talked about how nobody would believe him that Nahtahn is an accident, so he had to kill the other children and go on the run.
RICK HUBBARD: And now, as an investigator, you also realize that prior to Nahtahn becoming deceased, Amber had actually called during this PT'ing process, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: Correct. I don't know if she called during or before, but it was right around that timeframe.
RICK HUBBARD: Do you remember her saying how Nahtahn was gasping for air --
ROBERT MADSEN: Judge, objection.
THE COURT: Your objection?
ROBERT MADSEN: The Solicitor can't testify as to what somebody said.
THE COURT: Rephrase your question.
RICK HUBBARD: Based on what Amber said, did you have -- let me rephrase it just totally. Do you remember the words of Nahtahn to his mom, Mom, I didn't mean to do it?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, I do recall that.
RICK HUBBARD: Do you remember Mr. Jones being upset because he's been trying to get that out of Nahtahn, right?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
RICK HUBBARD: Some admission?
ADAM CREECH: He repeatedly repeated to us that he wanted him to, "come off of it."
RICK HUBBARD: And he worked at it and worked at it and worked at it and worked at it and couldn't get Nahtahn to say I'm sorry, I did something wrong?
ADAM CREECH: For hours, according to Tim.
RICK HUBBARD: But Amber makes one quick phone call and this little six-year-old says, Mom, I didn't mean to do it. Is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: And Tim Jones, at that point, slams the phone -- well, first, he tells her, Why do you always take up for the kids. Right?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
RICK HUBBARD: He tells her to F off and he slams that phone down. Right?
ADAM CREECH: Right.
RICK HUBBARD: At that point, no other adult walking on this planet ever had any communication with those kids. That was it. That line was cut. Is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: That's correct.
RICK HUBBARD: So now it's just Tim Jones and the kids, according to Tim Jones?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, by his own clear admission.
RICK HUBBARD: And the kid that was the focus of it all was Nahtahn?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, he repeatedly indicated that Nahtahn was the focal point of all of this.
RICK HUBBARD: And when he worked him and spanked him and hit on him, sometime during the process, in his words, Nahtahn becomes deceased. Correct?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: Now, he also tells you he's got a phone, but he doesn't call 911. Why?
ADAM CREECH: He indicated that his immediate concerns were --
ROBERT MADSEN: I would object, that calls for speculation.
RICK HUBBARD: He told him. That's what I'm asking, what he said.
THE COURT: All right.
RICK HUBBARD: I'll rephrase it.
THE COURT: You can ask that.
RICK HUBBARD: What does Tim Jones say is the reason why he didn't use his phone to call 911?
ADAM CREECH: Because nobody would believe him.
RICK HUBBARD: And?
ADAM CREECH: I believe his exact words were something along the lines of, "You're fucked now, Tim."
RICK HUBBARD: Okay. Now, as an investigator, after that fact, after this, after your investigation -- after your interrogation or interview with him, much later, do you find that he actually downloaded a YouTube site right after Nahtahn became deceased?
ADAM CREECH: Yes. He told us he killed the later four children, I think, around 11 p.m. and he downloaded the American History X video, I believe, an hour or two before that.
RICK HUBBARD: And the scene specifically in American History X that he downloads is what?
ADAM CREECH: It's a -- I've seen the movie. It's a pretty graphic male-on-male prison rape scene in the shower, if I remember correctly.
RICK HUBBARD: So instead of calling 911, we have evidence that he turns to YouTube and watches that?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: Then his attention turns to those other four children?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, it does.
RICK HUBBARD: Now, let me stop you here for a moment. If Mr. Jones had done something and Nahtahn became deceased, using his words, and he ran out of that house and just left those other kids, if he had just run, what would you as an investigator -- what are you over right now?
ADAM CREECH: Special victim's unit.
RICK HUBBARD: What would you and your unit do with those other four kids?
ROBERT MADSEN: Objection. I think that's a hypothetical. It calls for speculation.
RICK HUBBARD: No, it's police work.
ROBERT MADSEN: It's certainly not relevant.
THE COURT: Rephrase that question because that didn't happen here.
RICK HUBBARD: If those kids, those four children, Merah, Elias, Gabriel and Abigail, had been found alive in the home and Nahtahn was the only one dead, is your department equipped for investigation using young kids?
ADAM CREECH: We are. I have a very experienced team when it comes to those specific types of crimes.
RICK HUBBARD: Now, would you have interviewed them or how do you interview them?
ADAM CREECH: We don't interview children directly, especially that age.
ROBERT MADSEN: Again, we're talking about speculation.
RICK HUBBARD: This is what they did. I asked what he does. No speculation.
ROBERT MADSEN: But we're talking about a hypothetical that's not even this case.
THE COURT: Yeah, I tend to agree with you.
RICK HUBBARD: I have a point, Judge, if it gets to --
THE COURT: All right. Sustain the objection because I stymied them on a relevant matter that's come into play later on an exhibit. So let's move on.
RICK HUBBARD: I'll move on.
RICK HUBBARD: Now, confronting Mr. Jones, this is the man who we kept hearing, said he wanted to do the right thing at the end of that interview on the 9th, correct? Find those bodies, right?
ADAM CREECH: That's correct.
RICK HUBBARD: But, of course, that's after he confessed?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
RICK HUBBARD: And he really had nothing else to lose at that point, right?
ADAM CREECH: No. In fact, he and I had a conversation, I think, right before we went to find the bodies where we talk about that specifically where he says that he knows we couldn't prosecute him without the bodies, but he's going to take anyways. And we had a bit of a talk about how that's not true. With everything we had at that point, it would probably be a case against him regardless. It was just the right thing to bring those children home because it's absolutely what they deserved.
RICK HUBBARD: Prior to him actually admitting what he had done, isn't it true, he lied and he lied and he lied about what he had done and where those kids were?
ADAM CREECH: He did. As I previously mentioned, I was actually almost directly privy to the one when he was -- I was hearing him in the background over that first phone call with Under-Sheriff Patterson, I heard him yelling in the background that -- or talking in the background, I think they were pretty close to him, that his kids were with friends in South Carolina. And they already told me that he had said he had no kids. And then came the Wal-Mart story about throwing them out at Wal-Mart because he was afraid of them. I think that story took a couple of different versions before he finally told us that he had killed them.
RICK HUBBARD: And Sergeant Creech, it turned out, it was true at some point, he did go to a Wal-Mart, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: He did.
RICK HUBBARD: What was the purpose of going to Wal-Mart?
ADAM CREECH: To buy implements to assist in getting rid of the bodies.
RICK HUBBARD: You've seen a video. I want to show you two still shots from that, State's ID 200 and 201. Do you recognize that as from the video?
ADAM CREECH: I do. I've seen these particular still shots before and the videos previously shown in this court.
RICK HUBBARD: I offer this into evidence.
THE COURT: Any objection?
ROBERT MADSEN: Judge, we just renew our pretrial objection.
THE COURT: Okay. Pretrial objection, you're protected. It will be admitted subject to the objection. What numbers are those, Joy?
COURT REPORTER: 200 and 201. (WHEREUPON, State's Exhibit numbers 200 and 201 were admitted into evidence.)
RICK HUBBARD: State's 201, do you see Mr. Jones standing at the register actually making the purchase of these items?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
RICK HUBBARD: State's 200, back it up a little bit. Do you see Mr. Jones walking out with his purchase?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
RICK HUBBARD: Now, when he was initially confronted about this purchase and about these items, isn't it true he said the jab saw, which is in that bucket, the jab saw, he was just going to use it for limbing?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, he said it was for cutting limbs, even though you wouldn't use a saw like that for cutting limbs.
RICK HUBBARD: The muriatic acid, which is in that bucket, he was going to use for etching PVC pipe?
ADAM CREECH: Yeah, he said etching PVC. And we never asked him to get more specific than that.
RICK HUBBARD: But he lied?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: He later admits what he's doing in that video. He took time to shop, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, he did.
RICK HUBBARD: And he took time to shop for items so he could dismember and dispose of his children?
ADAM CREECH: He later, that's what those items -- the purpose was of those items.
RICK HUBBARD: Y'all confronted him with a handwritten note out of his car, State's 79?
ADAM CREECH: We did.
RICK HUBBARD: When y'all initially confronted him with this note, I believe he admitted it was his handwriting, right?
ADAM CREECH: He did, right away.
RICK HUBBARD: But isn't it true he said he couldn't remember what it was about?
ADAM CREECH: He did. He said he didn't know what any of the note was about initially.
RICK HUBBARD: And he ends up admitting he lied again, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: He does. He later tells us that those were some of the plans he had come up with.
RICK HUBBARD: Now, we've seen some of these items. Number one, you see where it says head to campground?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
RICK HUBBARD: Melt bodies, do you see that?
ADAM CREECH: I do, yes.
RICK HUBBARD: Sand bones to dust or small pieces, you see that?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
RICK HUBBARD: Now, let me get my little pointer here, this right here, number two, what does this say right here?
ADAM CREECH: It says loose ends.
RICK HUBBARD: You see a name Terry?
ADAM CREECH: I do. That would be in reference to Terry Jackson, Sr., his landlord, and actually somebody I'm very familiar with from my patrol days.
ROBERT MADSEN: I would object to speculation. It just says Terry.
RICK HUBBARD: I'll ask him a specific question.
THE COURT: All right. If he knows and he makes the question more specific, then he can answer it.
RICK HUBBARD: In your investigation, were you able to find anyone with the name Terry that had a link to Tim Jones, Jr.?
ADAM CREECH: I did. His landlord was Terry Jackson, Sr.
RICK HUBBARD: The name Christine, were you able to find anybody by that name that had a link to Tim Jones, Jr.?
ADAM CREECH: His babysitter at the time was Christine Ehlke.
RICK HUBBARD: The lady who testified earlier in this case?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: What is this, a Jim Mc -- Intel?
ADAM CREECH: That would be what I would presume to be a reference to Jim McConnell, which would have been Timothy's supervisor at Intel.
RICK HUBBARD: What is this here, SGE?
ADAM CREECH: That would appear to be a reference to Saxe Gotha Elementary School where Elias, Merah and Nahtahn were enrolled.
RICK HUBBARD: What about this part, BGC?
ADAM CREECH: Probably a reference to the boys and girls club where those same three children were enrolled in after-school activities.
RICK HUBBARD: Is that where they were picked up on August the 28th?
ADAM CREECH: It is, as that sign-in sheet that was previously introduced shows.
RICK HUBBARD: That was on that video --
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: -- where you see him picking up his kids? Anywhere in that video show that he's scared?
ADAM CREECH: No, it doesn't.
RICK HUBBARD: What is this right underneath that?
ADAM CREECH: It says pediatrician.
RICK HUBBARD: Pediatricians work on adults or kids?
ADAM CREECH: Children.
RICK HUBBARD: Whose name do you see here?
ADAM CREECH: Amber.
RICK HUBBARD: Do we know who she is?
ADAM CREECH: Would be his ex-wife.
RICK HUBBARD: Then can you make this out?
ADAM CREECH: I can't read that, so I'm not sure what that says.
RICK HUBBARD: But all these folks are loose ends, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: Correct.
RICK HUBBARD: Bills. On this same page he's got what he's going to do to his children, he's got bills. What's TWC?
ADAM CREECH: Time Warner Cable.
RICK HUBBARD: SCE&G?
ADAM CREECH: South Carolina Electric and Gas Cooperative.
RICK HUBBARD: What's underneath that?
ADAM CREECH: Post office.
RICK HUBBARD: What's underneath that?
ADAM CREECH: Car.
RICK HUBBARD: Had his car been paid off yet?
ADAM CREECH: To be honest, I'm not sure.
RICK HUBBARD: Fair enough. What does it say underneath car?
ADAM CREECH: Bank accounts.
RICK HUBBARD: So he's got loose ends and bills on the same sheet where he's going to dismember and dissolve, sand his children, is that correct?
ADAM CREECH: That's correct.
RICK HUBBARD: Now, when you're investigating a case that involves flight and where you're having to go after somebody, do you look for anything where anybody might take disguise or hide?
ADAM CREECH: I do.
RICK HUBBARD: What do we see up here on the right-hand side of this note?
ADAM CREECH: Tattoos.
RICK HUBBARD: What's this?
ADAM CREECH: Glasses.
RICK HUBBARD: What's this, can you make that out?
ADAM CREECH: I'm not sure. It may say hats, but I'm not sure.
RICK HUBBARD: Okay.
ADAM CREECH: And hunting gear.
RICK HUBBARD: Hunting gear. Let me show you what's in State's 132, also, found in his car. Do you see more notes?
ADAM CREECH: Yes, there are.
RICK HUBBARD: And again, if somebody goes outside of South Carolina and you have to go after them, are you looking for any item that might assist them in hiding?
ADAM CREECH: We would.
RICK HUBBARD: What's this word?
ADAM CREECH: Camping supplies.
RICK HUBBARD: Do you see underneath there?
ADAM CREECH: I believe it says gas and jug, maybe.
RICK HUBBARD: Okay.
ADAM CREECH: Muriatic acid.
RICK HUBBARD: Muriatic acid.
ADAM CREECH: Tent.
RICK HUBBARD: Okay.
ADAM CREECH: Charcoal, steaks, grill.
RICK HUBBARD: Can you make that out?
ADAM CREECH: Yeah, I'm not sure what that is.
RICK HUBBARD: What about underneath that?
ADAM CREECH: I'm not sure what that is either.
RICK HUBBARD: So again, these items are relevant to you?
ADAM CREECH: They are.
RICK HUBBARD: And over here, needs, is that what I see right there?
ADAM CREECH: That does say needs.
RICK HUBBARD: What's that word right there?
ADAM CREECH: Cash.
RICK HUBBARD: What denomination am I looking at as far as money?
ADAM CREECH: $3500, 401K and 6,000K.
RICK HUBBARD: And then what are we looking at?
ADAM CREECH: Clothes, four pants, eight socks, eight underwear, two shorts and something and ten shirts.
RICK HUBBARD: Does it look like a plan?
ADAM CREECH: It does appear to be a plan.
RICK HUBBARD: Going back to the note. You made note of the day one, day two, day three?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
RICK HUBBARD: Burn up bodies, sand down bones, dissolve and discard?
ADAM CREECH: Yes.
RICK HUBBARD: And a smiley face?
ADAM CREECH: And a smiley face.
RICK HUBBARD: This is a man several days later who said he was about doing the right thing?
ADAM CREECH: It is.
THE COURT: All right, Solicitor, is that a good stopping point? You got through those two exhibits. Can we stop for the day?
RICK HUBBARD: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: And resume in the morning? Y'all go to the jury room, put your stuff up. Don't talk about the case. Enjoy your evening. See you in the morning. We'll start at 9 o'clock sharp. (Whereupon, the jury was excused from the courtroom for the day.)
THE COURT: All right. We're done for the day. Let me make a couple comments to everybody. This is a very emotional case. Be aware of that. Both sides are emotional and forget arguing legal points. I'm going to suggest, just for my benefit so that I don't feel like I'm refereeing a boxing match as opposed to a trial, Judge, that's not a proper question or, Judge, that's an improper question under the rules rather than it's illegal or wrong. That drawing -- from both sides. And it's not one side or the other, I've heard it from both sides. But improper question or not a proper under the rules, something along those lines and I think the, I'm going to call it venom, won't come out so quick. This is late in the day and that's when it happens. It happened yesterday late in the day, happened late in the day today. Be aware of that. Okay?
RICK HUBBARD: Yes, sir. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: So that's for everybody. Nobody in particular, nobody being left out. That's to everybody involved. Y'all are doing fine, but let's be aware that's what we're dealing with, okay?
BOYD YOUNG: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Thank y'all. (Whereupon, the trial will resume the next morning at 9:00 a.m.)