Skip to content
2019 Murder TrialtranscripttranscriptDave Lawrence — Direct/Cross (Part 2) - Day 27 - 2019 Murder TrialDave Lawrence described the remote recovery scene and his experience identifying children’s remains; on cross-examination, he agreed the rural Alabama location would have been difficult to find without Tim’s help.
Rick HubbardRobert MadsenEugene C. Griffith, Jr.Dave LawrenceRick HubbardDave LawrenceRobert MadsenTHE COURTdirectcross
12 pages·5 witnesses·1,110 lines
Penalty-phase testimony and evidence included the Alabama recovery, conviction records, recordings, autopsy materials, and accounts from school and caregiving witnesses.
Dave Lawrence — Direct Resumed
DirectDirectDave Lawrence — Direct Resumed Dave Lawrence Rick Hubbard
11:44:07

RICK HUBBARD: Lieutenant, after y'all finished identifying the remains of each and every bag, about what time did y'all wrap up and you leave that scene?

21:44:15

DAVE LAWRENCE: We ended up leaving about 10:30 p.m.

31:44:20

RICK HUBBARD: When did you get back to South Carolina?

41:44:24

DAVE LAWRENCE: We stayed somewhere in Merdian, Mississippi and then drove back the next day.

51:44:33

RICK HUBBARD: Lieutenant, in your 30 years, you ever had a case where children were left by their killer in such a remote area?

61:44:42

ROBERT MADSEN: Objection, Your Honor.

71:44:45

RICK HUBBARD: Character.

81:44:47

THE COURT: Recharacterize that, please.

91:44:50

RICK HUBBARD: Have you had a case where someone who has disposed of bodies have left them in such a remote area, children?

101:45:01

DAVE LAWRENCE: I have not.

111:45:02

RICK HUBBARD: In your 30 years, have you ever been called upon to open garbage bags to identify the remains of children until this case?

121:45:14

DAVE LAWRENCE: I have not.

131:45:16

RICK HUBBARD: In your 30 years?

141:45:18

DAVE LAWRENCE: And I've seen a lot of dead bodies.

151:45:20

RICK HUBBARD: Thank you, sir.

THE COURT: Mr. Madsen.

CrossCrossDave Lawrence — Cross Dave Lawrence Robert Madsen

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. MADSEN:

181:45:30

ROBERT MADSEN: Lieutenant Lawrence, you mentioned that, I guess, you do polygraphs now or have a contract after retiring?

191:45:38
201:45:39

ROBERT MADSEN: And that was part of your job at SLED?

211:45:43

DAVE LAWRENCE: A very small part of my job at SLED. I ran very few polygraphs while I was there.

221:45:48

ROBERT MADSEN: How long have you been a polygrapher?

231:45:50

DAVE LAWRENCE: Since 1993.

241:45:52

ROBERT MADSEN: And you took your polygrapher equipment with you to Mississippi?

251:45:56
261:45:57

ROBERT MADSEN: Never used it, correct?

271:45:58
281:45:59

ROBERT MADSEN: No one asked you to use it?

291:46:00
301:46:01

ROBERT MADSEN: And once you got there, I think you had an initial meeting on the 8th with the law enforcement there, correct?

311:46:11

DAVE LAWRENCE: That's correct.

321:46:13

ROBERT MADSEN: And then you met with Tim, Sr. and Julie Jones?

331:46:18
341:46:19

ROBERT MADSEN: And that's Tim's father and his stepmother?

351:46:22

DAVE LAWRENCE: That's correct.

361:46:24

ROBERT MADSEN: And y'all discussed Tim?

371:46:26

DAVE LAWRENCE: Yeah, that was very brief that we -- we just had a conversation.

381:46:33

ROBERT MADSEN: About Tim and, I guess, his family history?

391:46:35

DAVE LAWRENCE: Some, yeah.

401:46:37

ROBERT MADSEN: And this is all before you know that the children are dead, correct?

411:46:41

DAVE LAWRENCE: That was at the same time that Agent Creech -- or Agent Mackey and Sergeant Creech were conducting an interview with Mr. Jones.

421:46:50

ROBERT MADSEN: And Tim, Sr. and Julie were obviously concerned?

431:46:55

DAVE LAWRENCE: Well, they were there.

441:46:57

ROBERT MADSEN: And they answered any question that you asked them?

451:47:00

DAVE LAWRENCE: As I can recall.

461:47:02

ROBERT MADSEN: And, in fact, they did everything that you had asked them? You felt comfortable if you went back to them, they would have answered anything that you wanted, correct?

471:47:10

DAVE LAWRENCE: I don't know if I can say that. I can only say that -- I mean, it was a very brief conversation that we had and it was in general and it was smalltalk as well, too. Obviously, I think even at that time, they were trying to find out what was going on.

481:47:27

ROBERT MADSEN: And so then on the 9th, I believe you were with Tim when he was reviewing maps, maybe even Google Earth?

491:47:35

DAVE LAWRENCE: I was in the conference room whenever that was going on.

501:47:38

ROBERT MADSEN: And he was cooperative?

511:47:40
521:47:43

ROBERT MADSEN: And I think the Solicitor had asked you about this area in Alabama and you said that it was extremely rural?

531:47:53

DAVE LAWRENCE: That's correct.

541:47:55

ROBERT MADSEN: And that you went for miles without seeing any houses?

551:47:58

DAVE LAWRENCE: It was very sporadic. You know, I mean, we would see one occasionally, but yeah, there was like miles on end before you would see one.

561:48:05

ROBERT MADSEN: And it would have been difficult to find those children without Tim's help?

571:48:10

DAVE LAWRENCE: Yes, it would.

581:48:15

ROBERT MADSEN: No further questions.

591:48:16

RICK HUBBARD: Nothing further, Your Honor.

THE COURT: You may step down.

Continue to next page6.Illinois Conviction Records