2.Janet Ricard — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross
314 linesJANET RICARD, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Once you're seated, state your name, state your full name spelling your last.
JANET RICARD: My name is Janet Ricard. Last name is spelled R-i-c-a-r-d.
DIRECT EXAMINATION By Ms. Mayes:
SUZANNE MAYES: Good morning.
JANET RICARD: Good morning.
SUZANNE MAYES: Can you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and where are you employed.
JANET RICARD: I am an educator of 21 years. Taught third grade for my student teaching, taught first grade for 13 years, and I have been a school administrator now in Lexington One for eight years. I am currently employed as assistant principal at Pelion Elementary in Pelion.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. And prior to your role as assistant principal in Pelion, what school were you affiliated with?
JANET RICARD: I had served as assistant principal at Saxe Gotha Elementary in the Red Bank community for seven years.
SUZANNE MAYES: Ms. Ricard, how is it that you knew the Jones children?
JANET RICARD: The Jones children enrolled in Saxe Gotha in August of 2012. At that time Merah enrolled in first grade and Elias, or Eli, enrolled in kindergarten. Nahtahn was not school age at that time. So when they enrolled it was always a priority of mine that I get to know my students by name, so I began to interact and get to know them from that point.
SUZANNE MAYES: Did you know each of them individually?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: As a result of that did you also know the Defendant in this case, Tim Jones, Jr.?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. I did.
SUZANNE MAYES: Ms. Ricard, I want to take you to the time period of August of 2014. At that point in time in August of 2014 how old was Merah?
JANET RICARD: Merah was eight-years-old. Her birth date was actually May the 15th.
SUZANNE MAYES: Today is her birthday?
JANET RICARD: Today is her birthday. She was born in 2006 and she was in third grade at that time. Eli was seven, and his birth date was August 20 -- excuse me, April 22nd of 2007 and he was seven-years-old, second grade.
SUZANNE MAYES: Second grade?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. And then Nahtahn was in first grade, and his birth date was April the 11th of 2008.
SUZANNE MAYES: He was how old?
JANET RICARD: He would have been six.
SUZANNE MAYES: What was the start date for that school year in the fall of 2014?
JANET RICARD: That would have been August 18th, 2014. That was the first day for students.
SUZANNE MAYES: You mentioned that you had communications with the Defendant, and I want to take you back even to when you said Merah first started.
JANET RICARD: Okay.
SUZANNE MAYES: Merah first started school before Eli got there. Eli started school before Nahtahn got there. Did you have the opportunity to interact with Mr. Jones on more than one occasion?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. On numerous occasions.
SUZANNE MAYES: Can you tell us during the course of your interactions with Timothy Jones, Jr., did he communicate with you normally?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. He did.
SUZANNE MAYES: He appeared to understand all communications between the two of you?
JANET RICARD: He did.
SUZANNE MAYES: Was he able to converse with you in a clear and rational manner?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: If you needed to contact him for any reason regarding any one of the children, how did he normally respond?
JANET RICARD: I would frequently contact him by phone if I had a reason to, and if he didn't answer immediately he would call me right back. We had several face-to-face conversations. So either by phone or face-to-face.
SUZANNE MAYES: Now I want to move forward to the date of August 28th, 2014. What, if anything, raised your concern about the Jones children after that date?
JANET RICARD: August 28th was that Friday before Labor Day weekend and we noticed that the students were not in school, and at that point we weren't terribly alarmed because we thought, you know, perhaps they were taking a day to -- to maybe make a longer weekend of it. So that date we weren't particularly alarmed, but we noticed that all three students were absent.
SUZANNE MAYES: And so, after the 28th and then to the 29th, and then you mentioned the weekend. Monday, September 1st was Labor Day. Then by Tuesday, September 2nd, when the children are not in school, what --
JANET RICARD: We became very alarmed at that point, because we've gone from not seeing them since Thursday evening at roughly 6:30 and they're not back on Tuesday morning after Labor Day Holiday. So at that point we did become concerned. That was a stretch from Friday through Tuesday. So that was -- that was a concern.
SUZANNE MAYES: What, if any, action did you personally take?
JANET RICARD: On Tuesday, September 2nd, I reached out by phone to Mr. Jones. I called his cell phone number. And the first time I called I did not leave a voicemail. It did go to voicemail. And typically if I called he would usually make a quick return call if he couldn't answer at the moment. So I called again, and at that point I did leave a message just basically letting him know that, you know, we were reaching out because we were concerned that all three students had been absent now since the Thursday before Labor Day weekend. Just let him know that, you know, it was kind of a courtesy call for us to call and make sure that they were okay.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. And you've had an opportunity to review phone records in this case?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: In addition to those two calls that you yourself made to Mr. Jones, which number were you calling? Specifically what type of phone?
JANET RICARD: His was a cell number. 271- I think, was his number. Close to that, maybe, . The number that I was calling from was 803-821- . That was my desk number at the time. And then there's another call from one of the office phones at the front that was made around the hour of 6:00 o'clock on, I believe, that same day. And that was very likely either myself or Ms. Houck. At that time all of the office staff would have been gone. So that was likely a call where we were trying to call back to see if we could get an answer at that point.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. And you mentioned Ms. Houck. Who is Ms. Houck?
JANET RICARD: Ms. Houck is my school -- or was my school principal at the time.
SUZANNE MAYES: No principal at Saxe Gotha?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. She is.
SUZANNE MAYES: So between yourself making two calls and another person -- staff member making a call on the 2nd, that would be three calls to Mr. Jones' cell phone on that date?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: Were any of those calls returned?
JANET RICARD: No, ma'am. They were not returned.
SUZANNE MAYES: And you mentioned that you left a cell phone message on his voicemail?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. I did.
SUZANNE MAYES: I'm going to show you an audio recording and ask you whether or not you recognize it.
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: Does it bear your initials?
JANET RICARD: It does.
SUZANNE MAYES: Having listened to that audio recording is it a fair and accurate representation of the message that you left for him?
JANET RICARD: It was the -- it was the message that I left.
SUZANNE MAYES: And, Your Honor, this is State's 4 for identification only at this time.
THE COURT: All right. Marked for identification purposes. (Whereupon, State's Exhibit number 4 was marked for identification only.)
SUZANNE MAYES: What message did you leave for Mr. Jones on the 2nd?
JANET RICARD: I basically just let him know that I was calling out of concern. That the children had been out the Friday before Labor Day weekend, they didn't return on Tuesday, and I was just, you know, checking in to see if maybe they were ill or if, you know, for some other reason they were not in school. And just basically letting him know that we were concerned.
SUZANNE MAYES: In addition to the calls that you made to the Defendant, Timothy Jones, Jr., what, if any, other avenues did you explore to try to locate the children?
JANET RICARD: Well, the next day, I believe, Wednesday, we did try to contact some emergency contacts that were in the Power School system, and we were able to speak to two people that were in that contact list.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. I'm going to ask you a little bit more about that.
JANET RICARD: Okay.
SUZANNE MAYES: Was the mother of the children, Amber Jones, in the contact list or --
JANET RICARD: No, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: -- the children?
JANET RICARD: She was not.
SUZANNE MAYES: And who provides the information for that contact list?
JANET RICARD: Mr. Jones would have given us that information.
SUZANNE MAYES: So without having contact information for the mother, Amber Jones, do you recall the identities or the relationship between the people that were listed in the contact --
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. There was a Kevin McKinney, who was a coworker at Intel, and then there was also -- she would have been the children's great-grandmother. It was Rebecca Thornsberry, I believe. Roberta Thornsberry.
SUZANNE MAYES: Okay. So those two contact -- contacts were a coworker of his at Intel --
JANET RICARD: Uh-huh. And then the relative. The great-grandmother.
SUZANNE MAYES: -- and then a relative that would be the great-grandmother of the children?
JANET RICARD: Correct.
SUZANNE MAYES: And contact was made with both of those persons?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: As a result of that contact were -- were you able to locate the children's whereabouts?
JANET RICARD: No, ma'am. From the conversation with Mr. McKinney he indicated that he had not had contact from Mr. Jones, and he had actually been out kind of riding the roads looking for him himself. And Ms. Thornsberry indicated that she was very alarmed because they were supposed to come for a visit over that long weekend and they had never shown up.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. So what is the next step that you and other staff members at the school took in an attempt to locate the children?
JANET RICARD: So at that point our concern was greatly increased. So we thought that it was appropriate to go ahead and contact the Lexington County Sheriff's Department to ask them to perform a welfare check.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. And when you called -- the call was made to the Sheriff's Department to request this welfare check, did you advise them that all three children, in your mind, were missing?
JANET RICARD: Yes.
SUZANNE MAYES: And were arrangements made to meet law enforcement?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: Where ultimately did you go to meet law enforcement for that welfare check?
JANET RICARD: They were living in a mobile home park on South Lake Drive, South Lake Drive, I believe was the address. So Ms. Houck, my principal, and myself went out there to meet the Sheriff's Deputies.
SUZANNE MAYES: I'm going to show you what is State's Exhibit 6, 7 and 8.
ROBERT MADSEN: No objection. (Whereupon, State's Exhibit numbers 6, 7 and 8 were marked for identification only.)
SUZANNE MAYES: And ask you whether or not you recognize those photographs.
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. This is the residence, and I do -- I recognize the front porch, and this is the front door that we went to and knocked.
SUZANNE MAYES: Is that a fair and accurate representation of the home in September 2014 when you were there?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. It is.
SUZANNE MAYES: This would be 6, 7 and 8 for evidence, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Without objection?
ROBERT MADSEN: Without objection.
THE COURT: Without objection, 6, 7 and 8 are in. (Whereupon, State's Exhibit numbers 6, 7 and 8 were admitted into evidence.)
SUZANNE MAYES: Who went with you, Ms. Ricard, to that residence?
JANET RICARD: Ms. Houck and myself went out there that afternoon.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. So that's you and -- we're looking here at State's Exhibit. That's you and the Saxe Gotha principal?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am. That's correct.
SUZANNE MAYES: Ms. Houck. Who met you here at this location?
JANET RICARD: We actually arrived first, and shortly after that there was a female deputy that met us and an older gentleman that they said was a constable that was riding along with her.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. And as you were waiting for law enforcement to get there what, if any, action did you take?
JANET RICARD: Well, we probably shouldn't have gotten out of our vehicle, but we did. I mean, I felt comfortable. I knew Mr. Jones, so I did get out. We walked to the front door and we knocked. There was no answer. It was very quiet.
SUZANNE MAYES: Looking here at State's Exhibit 8. So you go up on the porch and knock on the door?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: Could you hear any indication of anyone inside that residence?
JANET RICARD: No, ma'am. It was eerily quiet to know that five children lived there. It was obvious that no one was there.
SUZANNE MAYES: And what was your response to that?
JANET RICARD: I became extremely concerned. My heart dropped, because at that point we had had absolutely no contact since that previous Thursday and -- and in my mind they had disappeared. They had vanished.
SUZANNE MAYES: And that following day after this Wednesday do you have personal knowledge as to whether the school continued in its attempt to make contact with Mr. Jones?
JANET RICARD: Well, at that point we did confirm with our district office personnel as to what we could and should do. Ms. Thornsberry had asked Ms. Houck if we would report it, but we weren't able to do that because our district said that that needed to come from a family member. So we informed her of that, and that's when the chain began.
SUZANNE MAYES: And, Ms. Ricard, it goes without saying, did you ever see the children again?
JANET RICARD: No, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: Based on your observations and communications with Timothy Jones, Jr., did you ever witness anything that would lead you to believe that he was not of sound mind?
JANET RICARD: No, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: Can you tell us, based on your observations, interactions between he and his children, did he ever appear afraid of any of his children?
JANET RICARD: He never appeared afraid of any of his children.
SUZANNE MAYES: Thank you.
JANET RICARD: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Madsen:
ROBERT MADSEN: Ms. Ricard, how are you doing?
JANET RICARD: Doing well, thank you.
ROBERT MADSEN: Had you ever been out to the Jones' residence before?
JANET RICARD: I had not been out there previously, no. I had been to that neighborhood but not to their home.
ROBERT MADSEN: Did you know that Tim worked at Intel?
JANET RICARD: Yes, I did.
ROBERT MADSEN: Were you surprised that when you went out that someone who worked at Intel was living in that trailer?
JANET RICARD: You know, honestly, that area, we teach students of high poverty. So it was shocking that someone who worked at Intel would live there, yes. But we see students that live in places like that all the time, so it really was not that remarkable to us.
ROBERT MADSEN: And you said that the emergency contacts were Kevin McKinney and Roberta Thornsberry?
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: And I think at some point in time you knew the birth dates of the children --
JANET RICARD: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: -- and his phone number?
JANET RICARD: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: Was that just preparing for Court?
JANET RICARD: Well, I -- I did go back and review those birth dates, and it's kind of hard to get some of those things out of your mind actually.
ROBERT MADSEN: Did the children's mother, Amber, did she ever show up at the school?
JANET RICARD: I have never seen her in person.
ROBERT MADSEN: She never called you?
JANET RICARD: Never -- never spoken with her. No, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: And in fact, I guess, your job at Saxe Gotha back then, you handled some of, I guess, the disciplinary issues with students?
JANET RICARD: I did.
ROBERT MADSEN: And you were familiar with the Jones children because of that?
JANET RICARD: I was familiar with the Jones children because they were my students and I had a personal relationship with many of my students. But yes, I did have some interaction with them with some disciplinary issues.
ROBERT MADSEN: I think in kindergarten Eli got in trouble?
JANET RICARD: There was an incident where he brought an item to school that he did --
ROBERT MADSEN: A pocketknife?
JANET RICARD: It was a pocketknife that he had apparently taken of his dad's and we had to take a course of action.
ROBERT MADSEN: And he got in trouble for that?
JANET RICARD: He did.
ROBERT MADSEN: And at some point in time, I guess, Eli also stole some pencils?
JANET RICARD: That was, I think, from his classroom teacher. That was pretty minor.
ROBERT MADSEN: Was that Ms. Stephens, (phonetic)?
JANET RICARD: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: And when he got in trouble of that you informed Tim about that.
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir. I did.
ROBERT MADSEN: And his response to that seemed awful extreme, didn't it?
JANET RICARD: Well, I try to use those moments as teachable moments --
ROBERT MADSEN: Sure.
JANET RICARD: -- to help the child understand. But it was a -- it was -- I guess you would say that he wanted me to be a little bit harsher in my discipline.
ROBERT MADSEN: When you say that, he wanted Eli to go to jail for a day, didn't he?
JANET RICARD: That was one of the requests that he made.
ROBERT MADSEN: That seems awful extreme for -- what grade was he in?
JANET RICARD: At that time he was in kindergarten.
ROBERT MADSEN: And at some point in time Merah got in trouble for stealing a cookie?
JANET RICARD: Uh-huh.
ROBERT MADSEN: Is that a yes?
JANET RICARD: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: And Tim knew about that?
JANET RICARD: Yes, he did.
ROBERT MADSEN: And his response to that was -- let me ask you this. What grade was she in then?
JANET RICARD: At that time I believe she was in second grade.
ROBERT MADSEN: And he had a pretty extreme response to that, too, didn't he?
JANET RICARD: He wanted her to work and clean in the cafeteria, basically, which --
ROBERT MADSEN: And he also wanted an in-school suspension?
JANET RICARD: Uh-huh.
ROBERT MADSEN: And, in fact, at some point in time if they got in trouble you decided to quit contacting him because you thought he was kind of overboard and excessive, didn't you?
JANET RICARD: Well, I did continue to contact but, you know, I was -- I guess that I was a little bit less inclined to maybe share the details.
ROBERT MADSEN: Because you were worried about his responses?
JANET RICARD: I just felt like some of the -- the suggestions he gave for discipline were just not appropriate for that age child.
ROBERT MADSEN: And I think at some point in time you were doing a graduate school project --
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: -- and you involved Eli in that, didn't you?
JANET RICARD: I did.
ROBERT MADSEN: And I guess that was Eli reading?
JANET RICARD: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: And there might be a video of that?
JANET RICARD: Yes, there is.
ROBERT MADSEN: And part of that was you had some concern about not having a maternal influence and that's kind of why you picked Eli?
JANET RICARD: Well, we had to choose a Focus student for a Read to Succeed course that I was taking, and he immediately came to my mind because he and I had a good rapport with one another. We had, you know, dealt with each other in little situations of his mischievous, and I knew that he was having some difficulties with reading and I felt like he would be a good child to work with. I knew that he was in a single parent setting with four siblings and I knew that it was probably impossible for Mr. Jones to be able to give ample time to all those children in the evening. So I did choose him based on that. And I felt like I could also give him maybe a bit of that maternal influence that he was missing.
ROBERT MADSEN: That's obviously important to children, correct?
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: I think he also -- Eli got in trouble once for bringing a turtle in his pocket.
JANET RICARD: He brought a turtle in his pocket. Yes, he did. It was one of those little silver dollar turtles and it belonged to the sitter and he brought it to school in his pocket and his teacher didn't discover it until almost the end of the day. I don't know how it survived. But yes, sir, he did.
ROBERT MADSEN: And you had some worry about some questionable babysitters at times, correct?
JANET RICARD: At times, yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: And, in fact, I think one of them -- so when you're picking up kids, a lot of times right after school, there can be a long line for what, I guess, what we would call car riders?
JANET RICARD: Right. Car rider line.
ROBERT MADSEN: And you became aware at some point in time that the babysitter was going in and checking the Jones kids out early so she wouldn't have to wait.
JANET RICARD: They were missing instruction. So that was the problem.
ROBERT MADSEN: And you contacted Tim about that?
JANET RICARD: Uh-huh.
ROBERT MADSEN: And he --
COURT REPORTER: Is that a yes?
JANET RICARD: Yes. I'm sorry.
ROBERT MADSEN: Sorry. She's got to get it down.
JANET RICARD: I'm nodding, but yes, ma'am.
ROBERT MADSEN: And he immediately got a new babysitter?
JANET RICARD: That's correct.
ROBERT MADSEN: And at some point in time, I wouldn't say that Eli got in trouble, but there was something about he got a ripped lunch box?
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: And apparently he had told his dad that he had been bullied and it got ripped.
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: And Tim immediately contacted you concerned about that.
JANET RICARD: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: And you got to the bottom of that?
JANET RICARD: I did.
ROBERT MADSEN: And found out that Eli had done that?
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: And so, that was one of those teaching moments with Eli, not to lie even though it could get you in trouble?
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir. And I, even at that point, I had -- I was going to give him a lunch box of my own that had still -- you know, was in good condition, not been used, but he was not allowed to keep it.
ROBERT MADSEN: And at some point you got concerned, you all even contacted DSS on Tim?
JANET RICARD: I did not make that call. But yes, there was a call made.
ROBERT MADSEN: But you were familiar with that?
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: Beg the Court's indulgence.
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: And actually, when DSS was contacted they were out that day, right?
JANET RICARD: The students?
ROBERT MADSEN: Well, DSS came out --
JANET RICARD: DSS. I'm sorry.
ROBERT MADSEN: -- to the school?
JANET RICARD: Yes. Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: And they spoke to the students that day?
JANET RICARD: Yes, sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: To the Jones children?
JANET RICARD: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: That's all the questions that I have.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
SUZANNE MAYES: Yes, sir, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION By Ms. Mayes:
SUZANNE MAYES: I just want to follow-up a little bit more. He asked you some specific questions about Eli.
JANET RICARD: Sure.
SUZANNE MAYES: Ms. Ricard, did you ever consider Eli a discipline problem at all?
JANET RICARD: Eli was a mischievous little boy. He was not -- I mean, nothing out of the ordinary. Even the turtle. I mean, we've had -- we've had other live animals come into the school unknown before. So he was just a very curious, mischievous little boy.
SUZANNE MAYES: And the interactions that you had with the Defendant, Timothy Jones, regarding discipline, I think the words that Mr. Madsen used were overboard and excessive. Did you have concerns about his reaction?
JANET RICARD: It was more -- it was -- I mean, he didn't react in like an outwardly angry way. It was just more like wanting the resource officers to speak to them, or asking if there was, you know, some way that he could tour a jail cell, which are things that, obviously, I'm not going to -- you know, I'm not going to be able to do in an elementary school setting. Those are just -- if it had been a middle schooler, you know, perhaps. But I just thought that that was a little bit extreme for that type of discipline to be requested. We typically, like I said, make it a teachable moment. They might have -- you know, they might have a restricted recess, or maybe come have lunch in the office so we can kind of have a working lunch and talk through the situation and hopefully prevent it from happening again.
SUZANNE MAYES: Based upon your observations can you tell us whether or not Mr. Jones appeared controlling over the children?
JANET RICARD: I would say yes.
SUZANNE MAYES: Mr. Madsen asked you specifically about DSS.
JANET RICARD: Yes.
SUZANNE MAYES: The Department of Social Services. They were called by your school.
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: You were assistant principal at the time, so you were aware of those reports?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: Which child was the subject of that DSS report?
JANET RICARD: That was Nahtahn.
SUZANNE MAYES: The six-year-old?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: And Mr. Madsen was asking you specifically about your communications or contact with the Defendant over the course of that DSS investigation. Was he made aware that you and your staff made that report to DSS?
JANET RICARD: As mandatory reporters we report the situation to DSS and from that point it's their job to investigate and see if it's founded. We are supposed to be not identified. It should be anonymous. So he may have assumed. I don't know that the caseworker, you know, shared that it came from the school. They say that they don't. They're not supposed to, but apparently he -- he figured that it must have come from the school.
SUZANNE MAYES: Okay. So I want to ask a little bit more about that.
JANET RICARD: Okay.
SUZANNE MAYES: When you say mandatory reporter, what are you referring to?
JANET RICARD: So anyone that is directly working with children, anyone in the school setting, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, teachers, any other staff, we are all required by law to report anything that looks like suspected physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse. We are mandatory reporters for the State of South Carolina to the Department of Social Services. It's not our job to prove it or see that it's true or not. We have to just report it.
SUZANNE MAYES: And what is the timeframe in which that report was made to DSS regarding Tim Jones?
JANET RICARD: Timeframe? I think it was made one morning. I don't -- I truly don't recall the year that that was made because I did not -- I did not make the report.
SUZANNE MAYES: Do you know whether or not it was the previous school year?
JANET RICARD: I think it was, because if -- if I'm not mistaken -- yes, I know it was. It was the year that Nahtahn was in kindergarten. So yes, it would have been the previous year.
SUZANNE MAYES: Okay. And that year that Nahtahn was in kindergarten, after the DSS report, how would you describe Mr. Jones' reaction and response with you after that report had been made?
JANET RICARD: He was not quite as eager to communicate with me, and he even said that he was going to withdraw them and homeschool them. Less -- you know, less willing to communicate.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. So after the school, as mandatory reporters, made that DSS report, he communicated to you directly that he wanted to homeschool his children --
JANET RICARD: Uh-huh. (Indicated in the affirmative.)
SUZANNE MAYES: -- because that report had been made --
JANET RICARD: Yes.
SUZANNE MAYES: -- regarding Nahtahn?
JANET RICARD: Yes, ma'am.
SUZANNE MAYES: Nothing further at this time, Your Honor.
ROBERT MADSEN: Just a few follow-up questions, Your Honor.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Madsen:
ROBERT MADSEN: So she had asked you his -- his ideas of discipline, were those unusual as compared to other parents?
JANET RICARD: You know, I guess in my mind they were unusual. I don't typically have a parent ask if a child can go tour a jail cell. I'm married to a middle school principal and -- and that's a common request, you know, that they have the resource officer talk to the students. But that's middle school, and we're talking about elementary school, so yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: Especially that age of a child?
JANET RICARD: Right.
ROBERT MADSEN: And we talked about -- so we got the DSS report, we've got the unusual and extreme discipline. Were those the red flags that when they were missing that kind of brought something up?
JANET RICARD: Well, it did bring things to my mind.
ROBERT MADSEN: Those are all the questions that I have.
THE COURT: You may step down.
JANET RICARD: Thank you.
ROBERT MADSEN: One second, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: And as a mandatory report, if you had any information or thought that he was on drugs, you would have had to report that?
JANET RICARD: If -- if I had -- if I had face-to-face evidence that I felt like he was intoxicated or under the influence, yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: Those are all the questions.
THE COURT: Now you can step down.
JANET RICARD: Thank you.
THE COURT: Good time for a break?
ROBERT MADSEN: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: All right. Between witnesses I'm going to take a break now. You all step into the jury room. Don't discuss the case. I'll have you back in here in probably 15 minutes. All right? (Whereupon, the jury was excused from open court for a break.)
(Whereupon, a short break was taken.)
THE COURT: Let's bring them in. (Whereupon, the jury came into open court at approximately 10:35 a.m.)
THE COURT: You all can sit in any seat you like. You don't have to sit in the same seat every time if you don't want to. People kind of find their little comfort zone and kind of end up in the same area. You can pass that all around, if you like. What I've decided -- the Clerk's going to get your lunch. We're going to work about an hour, take a break, let you all pick a sandwich or whatever, work about another hour while they go get it. So we'll break about 12:30 to eat. So if that makes sense. So are we ready to go? State, call your next witness.
RICK HUBBARD: The State calls Jim McConnell.