5.Jessie Laintz — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross (Recall)
153 linesDIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. Graham:
SHAWN GRAHAM: Lieutenant Laintz. Isn't that correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yes, sir.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Where are you currently employed, Lieutenant?
JESSIE LAINTZ: I work at the Lexington County Sheriff's Department in the major crimes unit.
SHAWN GRAHAM: How long have you been in law enforcement?
JESSIE LAINTZ: I've been in law enforcement almost 14 years now.
SHAWN GRAHAM: And how long of that was the Sheriff's Department?
JESSIE LAINTZ: All of it.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Back in August of 2014 what was your rank and your job duties at that time?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Back when this incident happened I was a sergeant in major crimes, and during this time I was overseeing a team of four -- five investigators and some victim assistant officers.
SHAWN GRAHAM: This case ultimately ended up being under your supervision. Is that correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: That is correct.
SHAWN GRAHAM: What I wanted to talk to you about is a step through the Sheriff's Department's notification of when the fact that the children were missing came to light.
JESSIE LAINTZ: Okay.
SHAWN GRAHAM: If you would start with Wednesday, September 3rd, 2014, I believe, is that the first time that the Sheriff's Department was made aware?
JESSIE LAINTZ: It is.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Can you tell the jury how that came about?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So you heard a little bit about it before with Saxe Gotha. So at around 4, 1600, what we call 4:00 o'clock in the afternoon, they went out to the house and some of our deputies went out there and met them for what we call welfare check. They were just checking on the welfare of the people at the house. They actually went there. The car was not there and they didn't make contact with anybody. So they departed and wrote a welfare check essentially.
SHAWN GRAHAM: In addition to a welfare check report was there also a missing persons report filed that day?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So after that, around what we'd call 1800, around 6:00 p.m. there was more phone calls coming in from Timothy Jones, Sr. about the children possibly being missing. And when that happened it was a phone call request. A deputy took the phone call request, get some information and was trying to call the mother of the children and ended up talking to another deputy over the phone. And that deputy goes to the mother of the children and talks to her. And through conversation with the grandfather of the children, Timothy Jones, Sr., and with the mother, they were decided to put on NCIC as missing.
SHAWN GRAHAM: When you say NCIC, what does that mean?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So NCIC is a National Crime Information Center. It is a hub. It's the lifeline for law enforcement. A lot of things. It's actually a giant computer base in West Virginia where everything from missing persons, wanted people, people that have been listed as terrorists, stolen property. It's where our dispatch would run information through to find information out nationwide about somebody. So they were put on a nationwide computer database, so if the children or Timothy were ran by name or date of birth, we would be notified that they were out with some other law enforcement agency.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Now, between the time that they were put into NCIC over the next several days what, if anything, did the Sheriff's Department do in an attempt to locate the children or Mr. Jones?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So how that essentially works is a report is written, then an investigative sergeant will read that report. When that investigation sergeant reads the report, and we read anywhere from -- a slow night would be 50 or to 120 reports, and we would assign those reports. And this report was actually assigned to a detective in our unit, Detective Creech, and he started following up with it. In that following up process he tried getting a hold of Tim -- the Defendant by phone, tried to talk to Amber, talked to Tim Jones, Sr., talked to his work, and he was just trying to find anybody to reach out to talk to about this incident.
SHAWN GRAHAM: And did he have any luck as far as you knew?
JESSIE LAINTZ: He did not. And we didn't have anything until Friday.
SHAWN GRAHAM: So what was the next thing that happened on this case?
JESSIE LAINTZ: The next thing that happened on this case was when we actually got notified from an agency in Mississippi that they were out -- because we -- also in NCIC we can put vehicles. So we put the Escalade and the tag inside NCIC as well, and we were notified that, by Undersheriff Patterson in Smith County, Mississippi, that they were out with the vehicle and the Defendant.
SHAWN GRAHAM: And what was the date and time that the Sheriff's Department received notification?
JESSIE LAINTZ: It was that Friday which, I'm sorry, that Saturday at 9:00 p.m. So it would be September 6th at 9:00 p.m.
SHAWN GRAHAM: The address for Mr. Jones' house, I believe, is South Lake Drive. Is that correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: That is correct.
SHAWN GRAHAM: And that is in Lexington County?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yes.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Thank you, Lieutenant. Please answer any questions for the Defense.
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Madsen:
ROBERT MADSEN: Lieutenant Laintz, you did, I guess, an incident report in reference to this case, correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: I did a supplemental report in reference to this case.
ROBERT MADSEN: Same thing but different names?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So an incident report is the very first person that actually goes and takes the information. A supplemental report is what you would do to add to that original information report, supplemental. You're supplementing the report.
ROBERT MADSEN: A report basically, correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: A supplemental report, yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: Okay. And I guess at the time Detective Creech would have worked under you?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Detective Creech was one of the detectives in the major crime scene, yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: And so, when he gets assigned a missing person's case, you don't necessarily know what each of your people are doing at that point in time, correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: I can't say I know what ever, all the detectives were doing at one point in time, no. They have a lot of cases that they're working and they could be working an array of different things.
ROBERT MADSEN: But if it gets to a point where something big comes up or something that is going on, you are known as kind of the on-duty sergeant, correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: That is correct.
ROBERT MADSEN: And I think you all probably rotate that at the Sheriff's Office where you might be the on-duty sheriff for major crimes and then when you're off, someone else? You all rotate like that?
JESSIE LAINTZ: That is correct. Actually during this time we have three sergeants. No, during this time we actually had four sergeants. So once a month. Essentially once every four weeks we were on night call.
ROBERT MADSEN: And when did you actually become involved? Is it the 6th where you kind of became notified?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So a little bit abreast of what was going on before, but it was more in passing, hey, I got this case. This is what's going on. And then Under Patterson -- Undersheriff Patterson got involved. Then that's when I really started getting more involved, yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: So you didn't know anything about it until, I guess, the 6th of September?
JESSIE LAINTZ: I wouldn't say I didn't know anything about it. There was nothing that was causing a lot of my attention. Does that make sense? There was -- there was not a whole lot that was making me drive to this case and start working heavily on it.
ROBERT MADSEN: And what caused or kind of caught your attention was, I guess, an email that you received from Detective Creech on the 6th kind of giving you an update on the case?
JESSIE LAINTZ: That did help with the situation. That and Undersheriff Patterson calling and saying that they're out with the car and out with the Defendant, but with no kids.
ROBERT MADSEN: And he gave you a run or -- and, I guess, Detective Creech at the time kind of gave you a rundown of what he had been doing?
JESSIE LAINTZ: He did.
ROBERT MADSEN: And so, you knew he had been interviewing witnesses, Jim McConnell that we've seen, maybe Beth Houck?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: I guess Ms. Ehlke that we had talked to, maybe another babysitter?
JESSIE LAINTZ: I think he talked to Ms. Ehlke, yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: Once you got back, that looks like that was later in the day, at some point in time you went out to Rawl Road and tried to find the children's mother, correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yes. We went out there and did talk to Amber, yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: You remember about what time that was, that would have been after the email?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So it was after I talked with Undersheriff Patterson. That was the first place, essentially I called another detective, called the other detective in. We worked in twos, so me and another detective went out to the house. So I'm guessing, and this is a complete guess. I would say 10:30.
ROBERT MADSEN: And she seemed unconcerned about not knowing where the kids were at that point in time?
JESSIE LAINTZ: It wasn't uncommon for him to leave the state or for him to leave the kids with other women, according to her.
ROBERT MADSEN: And based on your email from Detective Creech, were you worried at all about an undiagnosed mental illness with him?
JESSIE LAINTZ: No.
ROBERT MADSEN: That wasn't something that came up in the email?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So there might have been talk about it, but was I worried about it, no.
ROBERT MADSEN: Well, that wasn't something you were looking at in investigating?
JESSIE LAINTZ: At that point in time at 10:30 at night on a Saturday night, no sir.
ROBERT MADSEN: Later were you?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Likely, yes.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Your Honor, can I ask that he show whatever email he's talking about?
THE COURT: Sure.
ROBERT MADSEN: You want to see it?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yeah, that would be nice.
ROBERT MADSEN: You should have a copy of that.
JESSIE LAINTZ: Okay.
ROBERT MADSEN: And that is the email that you received?
JESSIE LAINTZ: That is.
ROBERT MADSEN: And part of that was information about a diagnosed mental illness, potentially?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Of the page and half of the email there was three lines about possible diagnosed mental illness, and that his mother was in New York with mental illness. I would have to read it verbatim though.
ROBERT MADSEN: Okay. And part of -- you get assigned other aspects of things that you have to follow through, I guess, based on what's called lead sheets?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Correct.
ROBERT MADSEN: And I would assume as a supervisor you would give people lead sheets saying, hey, Detective Creech, you need to go do this?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So how that would essentially play out, so right now we're in the infancy of this. This is at 10:30 at night. I'm waking up and having another detective come out with me and we're going to talk to people. As this progresses we have -- we called more and more people out. When more and more people are working it, I take a more of a overhead view of everything so I can see everything that's going on. So when it comes to those lead sheets it's essentially my way of being able to track what everybody's doing. And then once it's done I get a lead sheet back saying this is completed. So as this progressed and as we moved forward, not the night of the 6th, more into the day of the 7th and 8th and going forward, I was a much -- I stood back further and kind of managed people instead of being in-depth involved with the case.
ROBERT MADSEN: And was one of the things that you were assigned to, after talking with the Undersheriff and receiving additional information, you were assigned basically to document or somehow come up with a travel path based on receipts?
JESSIE LAINTZ: That is correct. Well, so my plan of that is a lot different than someone who's -- has the ability to do stuff with computers. Mine's the old way with a pen on a map and I put it there. So that's what I was doing as we advanced and we had people that were very good with computers get involved. They did a better mapping of it.
ROBERT MADSEN: And you said kind of old school. Did you use -- it's not a chalkboard, it's a --
JESSIE LAINTZ: It's a white board.
ROBERT MADSEN: A white board.
JESSIE LAINTZ: Uh-huh.
ROBERT MADSEN: Did you actually do that and track that path?
JESSIE LAINTZ: I was involved with that. My writing is like a two-year-old, so I don't write a lot.
ROBERT MADSEN: That's marked for ID. (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit number 7 marked for identification.)
ROBERT MADSEN: I'm going to show you what's been marked as -- I'm going to show you State's Exhibit number 7.
THE COURT: It's the Defense or State?
ROBERT MADSEN: It's Defense, I'm sorry.
ROBERT MADSEN: Are you familiar with that?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: Is that the white board that you're talking about?
JESSIE LAINTZ: It is.
ROBERT MADSEN: Okay. You didn't write it, but that information, I guess, came through you in coordination with someone else?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So that information was done with a group of people sitting there looking at emailed or text pictures that we'd received of receipts.
ROBERT MADSEN: Okay. And that's the information that you had at that point in time, correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Let me see it one more time. I'm trying to see what this underline is here. The best I can tell, yes.
ROBERT MADSEN: Okay.
ROBERT MADSEN: Your Honor, at this point in time we would move State's Exhibit for ID 7 into evidence.
THE COURT: Any objection?
SHAWN GRAHAM: Not for ID, Your Honor.
THE COURT: No. I think we want to move it into evidence.
SHAWN GRAHAM: You participated in it?
THE COURT: I did.
SHAWN GRAHAM: No objection.
THE COURT: Yeah. He was -- he testified that the was involved in summarizing information, but denied that he could write that well.
JESSIE LAINTZ: That's correct. (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit number 7 was admitted into evidence.)
ROBERT MADSEN: And that was just based off information that you had at that point in time. That wasn't necessarily based off phone documents or anything else that could be supplementing locations later, correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: So that was very early in our investigation when we started doing that white board. I don't know if that was from everything inside the car. I don't know if that's something that we added onto as we went. But we did start a timeline of events that we got from the receipts from the vehicle that we got from Undersheriff Patterson. The next day we started that.
ROBERT MADSEN: And I believe at some point in time it was your job to request or try to get Tim's military records. Is that correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yes. We found out that Tim was involved with the military, being former military. I called the NCIS. I was able to talk to somebody and got a copy of his -- I actually don't know what the whole thing was, but it was his military records.
ROBERT MADSEN: And that was done, I guess, later? Not necessarily that night?
JESSIE LAINTZ: No, that was definitely not done that night.
ROBERT MADSEN: That's all the questions I have.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. Graham:
SHAWN GRAHAM: Lieutenant, just a follow-up question or two about the information you had. I guess this would have been the night of Saturday, September 6th from the email that you received from Detective Creech at the time?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yes, sir.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Mr. Madsen was questioning you about undiagnosed with a potential, it says, "May suffer from undiagnosed mental illness." Correct?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Yes, that's what it says.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Where does it say that that information came from?
JESSIE LAINTZ: Tim Jones, Sr., his father.
SHAWN GRAHAM: As far as what -- Detective Creech spoke with Amber. What did Amber tell him?
ROBERT MADSEN: Judge, I'm going to object to hearsay.
THE COURT: Rephrase your question. It may be hearsay. It sounds like it is.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Can we approach for a sidebar, Your Honor? (Whereupon, a bench conference was held in the presence of the jury but out of the hearing of the jury.)
SHAWN GRAHAM: Did Mr. Madsen, and I can't remember, Lieutenant, did he ask you about any specific mental illness? Did he ask you any questions about the Defendant's mother?
JESSIE LAINTZ: He did not.
SHAWN GRAHAM: So all that you knew was from Tim's father, that he had reported that Tim, Jr. may suffer from some undiagnosed mental illness and that's all he knew at the time?
JESSIE LAINTZ: That is correct.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Thank you.
ROBERT MADSEN: One follow-up.
THE COURT: One follow-up, that's it.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Madsen:
ROBERT MADSEN: And at that point in time no one knew that the children were dead?
ROBERT MADSEN: That's all the questions I have.
THE COURT: All right. You can step down. Yes, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: The State calls Linda Watkins.