8.Brantley Brokaw — Direct/Cross
241 linesBRANTLEY BROKAW, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: If you'll have a seat over there, please. State your name, spell your last for the record.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Brandon Brokaw, B-R-O-K-A-W.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SECOR:
CASEY SECOR: Mr. Brokaw, how long have you known Tim?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: We went to college together at Mississippi State. I don't know the exact time that we met at Mississippi State.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And after Mississippi State, did you all work together after that?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, at Intel, that's right.
CASEY SECOR: At Intel?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Going back to when you first met Mr. Jones, tell us how it was you came to meet him. Was it just in class or on campus or what?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I don't recall the exact moment that I met Tim Jones, I just know we had a few courses together at Mississippi State, some of our computer design courses and a computer architecture course. I don't recall the very first moment.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And what was your impression of him in terms of his intellect?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I could tell he was very smart, inquisitive, you know, very up on the course, course work.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. How about socially, did you see him socially or just in school?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Just in school.
CASEY SECOR: Do you have any idea why that was, that you didn't see him socially?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I think he had kids at the time and a family. Some of us would get together after class and meet up for study groups and things like that, but I think, you know, some of the folks that had kids would go home and not stick around for that.
CASEY SECOR: Was he sort of the typical engineering student?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if there is a typical engineering student.
CASEY SECOR: Why is that, just the personality type --
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Everybody's got different personalities.
CASEY SECOR: I gotcha. And you all graduated, I think it was 2011, right?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, 2011.
CASEY SECOR: And were you -- tell the jury the job that you were applying for and that Tim was applying for at the time you were graduating.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I think the title was either validation engineer or component design engineer.
CASEY SECOR: With?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: With Intel in Columbia, South Carolina.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And was that a pretty competitive position, do you feel?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, definitely. I wasn't sure I was even going to get it when I applied.
CASEY SECOR: And do you know whether or not -- or who interviewed for it first?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Tim had accepted an offer with Intel prior to my interview.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Now, after you were -- you applied and got the job at Intel, you then moved to South Carolina. Did you move to South Carolina before Tim or after?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I actually got a residence before Tim in South Carolina. As far as, like, physical presence, I don't -- you know, he lived with me a little bit whenever he was looking for a place.
CASEY SECOR: So that's when he first moved here, he lived with you?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I believe so. I don't know if he came prior and stayed in a hotel or anything like that.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. But you let him stay with you while he was trying to find a place, is that right?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: That's right.
CASEY SECOR: And when he lived with you that first time, which, I guess, would have been what, the summer of 2011?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, the summer of 2011. We graduated in May, started June 6th, so.
CASEY SECOR: What was your -- what were your interactions like with Tim at the house? Was he -- did he talk a lot?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: It was an apartment. And Tim was very talkative. Obviously, I would listen, have conversations about, you know, his religious views and things of that nature. We talked about work and what we were expecting to happen and all that kind of stuff.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. When you had these conversations, particularly about religion, was it a conversation or did you feel like you were just listening to him talk?
SHAWN GRAHAM: Your Honor, I'm going to object to lead -- those are leading questions. I'd ask for a non-leading question.
CASEY SECOR: I didn't suggest the answer in any way, shape or form.
THE COURT: Rephrase your question. Don't lead.
CASEY SECOR: What were your conversations like with Tim about religion? What was your impression of his religious views?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: They were pretty, you know, radical. You know, there wasn't much leeway for, you know, other opinions. So it was just -- he was pretty talkative about those. I wasn't so much, mostly listened.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Would you describe him as being passionate about it or not passionate?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Definitely passionate, yeah.
CASEY SECOR: And did they seem like mainstream beliefs to you or not necessarily?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, not necessarily. More on like the Pentecostal style and maybe Old Testament style.
CASEY SECOR: Tell us about the story Tim told you about slipping on the sidewalk in Illinois.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, he did mention a story about he was walking on the sidewalk when it was snowy and icy and he slipped and Jesus literally reached out and prevented him from hitting the ground.
CASEY SECOR: Is that something he seemed to be telling you in an honest way?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I believe so.
CASEY SECOR: Tell us, also, about how you saw Tim's interaction with other people in terms of social cues and things like that.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: He didn't have too much of a filter. He would just say his opinion on things and, you know, wasn't terribly open to opinions that were exactly, you know, his views on religion or anything like that.
CASEY SECOR: Did he say things that sort of tried to force his religious opinions on other people?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I don't recall any, like, episodes like that. You know, mostly the religious talks we had were just, you know, in a one-on-one conversation, not around a group of people. At work, I don't ever remember him talking about religion.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Did you socialize with anybody with Tim during that period of time when he lived with you for the first time?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: No. I mean -- you mean was anyone else physically present?
CASEY SECOR: Yeah, did the two of you ever go anywhere to socialize with other people when he was living with you?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I don't remember anything of that nature.
CASEY SECOR: Is that something that you would have wanted to do, socialize with other people with Tim?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I don't know. At the time, you know, we were just starting our jobs, we didn't know anyone here. So I don't know if I could have said in that time I would have or wouldn't have in that timeframe.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Now, when he lived with you the first time, the summer of 2011, he -- did he ever talk to you about his wife?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yes.
CASEY SECOR: So you did know that he had a wife, right?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yes.
CASEY SECOR: And that he had kids?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, knew that he had kids.
CASEY SECOR: And what was your impression about how he felt about Amber and his family?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I could definitely tell that he cared about Amber a lot. You know, I mean, he would talk about her. I don't recall him talking too terribly much about his kids at the time.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Do you ever remember anything that you were aware of that Tim and Amber were arguing about during that time that he lived with you in the summer of 2011?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: There was one instance I think he had found a home that they were going to live in, it was a trailer, and, you know, he had decided on the trailer and she didn't really want to live there, so there was some conflict. But he seemed pretty adamant about his decision.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And what was your impression of why he thought that he should be the decision-maker in those types of situations?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: He seemed to kind of have an opinion that the -- you know, the man just makes all the decisions in the household, that kind of view on the marital makeup.
CASEY SECOR: And did you get the sense that that was sort of based on his religious views?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah.
CASEY SECOR: When you and Tim started working at Intel -- I guess you did start work at the same time, right?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, we started June 6th, 2011, same day.
CASEY SECOR: And where did you see his strength in terms of his smarts? What stood out to you in terms of what his strengths were?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Tim was very studious, really good at reading documentation, you know, with a -- you know, just be really good at reading and studying and kind of the course work type of attributes to just about any technical thing.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And then where did you see where he was sort of lacking in terms of his intellect?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Just with, like, situations that weren't -- you know, it wasn't anything that you could study. It's where you have to go through a logical progression, you know, debugging a problem. That's probably where he had more challenges than all the course work and the studious behavior.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. So is it -- and correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean that where he was left to his own devices, he had more trouble? Am I correct about that?
SHAWN GRAHAM: Objection, leading.
THE COURT: Don't lead. Rephrase.
CASEY SECOR: Socially, did you ever socialize with Tim that you remember while he -- during your time at Intel together?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Define socialize. You mean, like, talk with him at work or, like, outside of work?
CASEY SECOR: I know you did that. I think you told me one of the only times you saw him outside of Intel was at Wal-Mart, right?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, that's right.
CASEY SECOR: And tell us about that.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: So I saw him at Wal-Mart in Lexington. His wife and kids were there. Pretty much any time I'm outside in the public, I really don't notice people right off, you know, right away. And he said hi, this -- his wife was pregnant at the time. And you know, he said hi, this is my wife and my kids. Like I said, that was the first and only time I saw him.
CASEY SECOR: So did he approach you and introduce Amber to you?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I didn't notice Tim in Wal-Mart. You know, I was just getting my stuff and getting out. He said something like hey, man. I don't know exactly the statement.
CASEY SECOR: Did you eventually become aware of the fact that Tim and Amber were having marital problems?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I did.
CASEY SECOR: And tell us how that -- how you first came to know about that.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I was at work in my cubicle and Tim approached my cube and said that he needed to talk to me. So he said, you know, let's go take a walk outside. I wasn't exactly sure what the conversation was going to be about. And we got outside and he said he needed to have a cigarette, and he doesn't normally smoke. And we took a walk around the pond outside of Intel and he was telling me that he found out that his wife had cheated on him with the next door neighbor, who was like 17. You could tell he was really distraught.
CASEY SECOR: How could you tell he was distraught other than -- his words or what?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: His body language. I mean, I don't know, I would imagine that gets cheated on is going to be really distraught. I mean, you could just tell.
CASEY SECOR: Do you remember whether he brought up religion on that conversation?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I don't recall if he did or didn't.
CASEY SECOR: And what was part of the conversation? What was he asking from you as part of that conversation?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: He was looking for a place to stay for some time while he was, you know, figuring things out.
CASEY SECOR: And so what did you tell him about moving in with you?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: You know, I told him he could stay with me. I wasn't -- you know, had -- at the time, I had a one-bedroom apartment at the Tapps building downtown. And, you know, he'd have to sleep on the couch. And I wasn't sure about the kids' situation, but I think he said his kids were going to stay with maybe their grandparents or something, but that wasn't an issue.
CASEY SECOR: Now, at the time that he moved in, did you have a girlfriend?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I had just recently met the girl that's now my wife around that time.
CASEY SECOR: And did you have any concerns about Tim living with you at the time that you were beginning this relationship with this woman?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yes. I was hesitant to bring her by my apartment. You know, I didn't want her to think that was like, you know, my best friend and staying at my place. You know, he's just got some pretty abrupt views on things. You know, I just wanted to control everything.
CASEY SECOR: Yeah.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Didn't want to blow it. Thankfully, I didn't.
CASEY SECOR: In terms of your conversations during that time, did you talk to Tim sometimes about why he was upset or how he was upset and the reasons for the divorce?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I mean, I know we had some conversations of, you know, about that he was frustrated with the situation. I don't remember all the details. I do remember he was doing a lot of stuff to try to figure things out at the time.
CASEY SECOR: Right.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Running errands and doing stuff.
CASEY SECOR: Do you remember whether or not he was worried about the kids?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I do remember he was -- he had some concerns. He really wanted to -- I think he felt like, you know, his wife cheated on him, you know, she might not be the best role model for the kids or something at the time. It was something along those regards. I don't remember all the details, just the general feeling that he wanted just to, you know, make sure they had a stable home.
CASEY SECOR: Did he ever express to you rage about Amber's cheating on him?
SHAWN GRAHAM: Objection, leading.
CASEY SECOR: It's a yes or no question. I just asked him yes or no.
SHAWN GRAHAM: That is not how you ask a question, Your Honor.
CASEY SECOR: It's exactly how you ask questions.
THE COURT: No, don't argue. The answer is yes or no, then you can ask him to explain his answer.
CASEY SECOR: Did you ever see him express rage about Amber?
CASEY SECOR: Did Tim ever tell you that he was taking medication when he was living with you?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: He did. He said he had -- he kind of gave me a warning to say I might be acting a little bit funny. I'm on medication because I just recently got a vasectomy, you know, I'm done having kids, something along those lines.
CASEY SECOR: Did he tell you what the medication was?
CASEY SECOR: Did you think that was normal or did that strike you as odd?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I thought it was a little different. You know, I've never had a vasectomy, so I don't know, but I just thought -- yeah, I wasn't totally sure if it was true or not or whatever. I didn't ask.
CASEY SECOR: Tell us about sort of the last straw before Tim moved out of your apartment.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: So Tim had gone out drinking downtown. You know, my apartment is downtown, so it's not that far from any bars or anything. And he came back one night and had been throwing up from drinking so much. He threw up against the wall of my apartment and then, you know, going to leave and there was like this total throw up all over the wall and I just -- and, you know, he didn't clean it up or anything. And I just told him, you know, I just preferred that he find another place to stay. He took it really well and was like -- he wasn't mad at all and seemed to understand.
CASEY SECOR: Did he do anything ever to express thanks to you for letting him live there?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, he -- for his appreciation for staying at my apartment, he offered to take me to eat at Wendy's. It was close to my apartment.
CASEY SECOR: Were you expecting Wendy's?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: No, not necessarily, but I understood. He was always very concerned about money.
CASEY SECOR: And what happened at Wendy's?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Just the -- well, so the -- when we were at Wendy's -- are you talking about the situation at Wendy's?
CASEY SECOR: What you told me about the past that happened, yeah.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: So when we were at Wendy's, we were sitting down eating. And I think it was around three girls walked in and I think Tim said something to the effect of, like, oh, look at these girls and then just barked at them like three times across the Wendy's restaurant at the time.
CASEY SECOR: And how did you feel about that?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I felt embarrassed. I was just ready to, you know, let him move on to the next stage in his life.
CASEY SECOR: Did he seem embarrassed by that?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: No, I don't think so.
CASEY SECOR: Did you talk much after he moved out of your place in -- I guess it was the summer of 2012, right? Yeah.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I don't remember the exact dates, but we -- you know, mostly, it was just a working relationship after that point. Occasionally, he would IM me about stuff.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Now, you've known him, I guess, it's over ten years, right?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I don't even know the number. In college, it was probably around -- you know, I had been there for a couple of years at the time, maybe like 2009ish.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And during the whole time that you know him -- or the whole time that you have known him, did he ever tell you that he was hearing voices?
CASEY SECOR: During the whole time that you knew him, did he tell you that he thought that his children were out to get him?
CASEY SECOR: And during the whole time that you knew him, did he ever tell you about his mother, Cynthia?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: No, I don't recall that. He may have, I just don't remember.
CASEY SECOR: May I have just a moment, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
CASEY SECOR: That's all I have right now. Thank you, Mr. Brokaw.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. GRAHAM:
SHAWN GRAHAM: Good afternoon, Mr. Brokaw. How are you?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: You know, been better.
SHAWN GRAHAM: You worked with Tim Jones until he didn't show back up to work in 2014, is that right?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah. He worked in the same building. I mean, we weren't on the same team.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Did you still have contact with him?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Occasionally.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Prior to -- was the contact really from graduating from Mississippi State together?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: It was normally, you know, work related things. We would just see him in the hallway, that kind of thing.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Did you ever work on the same team before at Intel?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: No, not real -- not definitely defined roles or anything.
SHAWN GRAHAM: How long did he live with you in the summer of 2011?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: I don't remember the total length. I don't think it was any more than two weeks.
SHAWN GRAHAM: And there was no agreement that he was going to pay you money, you just --
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Oh, no.
SHAWN GRAHAM: -- were giving him a place to stay, right?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: No, I just -- he was looking for a place to -- you know, find a place and I had an extra bedroom.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Because you were a nice friend and helped out?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah.
SHAWN GRAHAM: His religious views are conservative, is that fair to say?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah.
SHAWN GRAHAM: But they didn't interfere with his work, did they?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: No, I don't remember any conflict at work with religion.
SHAWN GRAHAM: He wasn't at work trying to convert people?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: No, not that I'm aware.
SHAWN GRAHAM: He did have a religious belief that the man should be the head of the family, though, didn't he, a very strong one?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah. And that conversation was only at the apartment.
SHAWN GRAHAM: That was just you and him at the apartment?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: (Witness nods in the affirmative.)
SHAWN GRAHAM: Now, other than those two weeks, outside -- you said outside of work, you ran into Tim one time at Wal-Mart?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, besides him living with me again, but, yeah, at Wal-Mart, that was the only --
SHAWN GRAHAM: And he's the one that came up and initiated contact with you?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: That's right. From what I remember, that's how it went down. You know, it's just a casual thing.
SHAWN GRAHAM: And then when he had -- he sought you out to share with you in 2012, I guess, his marital problems? He asked you to go for a walk?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: That's right.
SHAWN GRAHAM: So when he had things to talk about, he had people to go to, like you and other people at Intel?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I think you could say he trusted me.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Things that were on his mind or bothering him that he needed to share, there were people to talk to?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I think so. I think we're fairly approachable.
SHAWN GRAHAM: He had friends and coworkers?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah.
SHAWN GRAHAM: No offense when I say this, but engineers are different, the way they think from other people, is that true?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: The way they what, sorry?
SHAWN GRAHAM: The way they think.
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I mean, typically, you know, just like there's variation in all kind of people, right.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Well, my brother's an engineer, so I can say it --
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Okay.
SHAWN GRAHAM: -- but sometimes the word geek gets associated to engineers?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Tim really, the way he interacted with people was really no different than anybody else? He wasn't an uncommon character at Intel, was he?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I mean, even at Mississippi State, engineering students are a little different, you know, had different personality quirks.
SHAWN GRAHAM: The incident at Wendy's when he barked at the women, you would agree with me that's obnoxious behavior, isn't it?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I guess define obnoxious, I don't know. It was -- it definitely made my feel embarrassed and awkward.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Did he do anything else other than bark at them three times?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: No, it wasn't like follow-up with something else. We just finished our meal and left.
SHAWN GRAHAM: As far as you know, there was never any reprimands or allegations of any bad behavior or him doing anything wrong while he was at Mississippi State, correct?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I don't remember. I mean, he said he had a bad past, not at Mississippi State, but in his younger years.
SHAWN GRAHAM: At Intel, you're not aware that he had any behavioral problems that caused a write-up?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I'm not aware of any.
SHAWN GRAHAM: In fact, you were aware that his last review in April of 2014, that he actually got a promotion?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: At the time, I was not aware of it.
SHAWN GRAHAM: It would surprise you to know that, would it?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, I mean, you know, people get promoted when they do good work, so I'm not -- I wasn't on his team, so I wasn't keeping up with where he was at.
SHAWN GRAHAM: You never saw him have any violent outbursts at work?
SHAWN GRAHAM: You never saw him lose his emotions?
SHAWN GRAHAM: You never saw any sign of mental instability?
SHAWN GRAHAM: And you continued to have contact with him, at least, sporadically, until the last day he worked there?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah.
SHAWN GRAHAM: You never saw anything about his behavior that you felt you needed to report to management?
SHAWN GRAHAM: And there was nothing about the way he was behaving before he killed his children that when you heard about it made you think oh, that's what that was? It came as a total surprise, didn't it?
BRANTLEY BROKAW: Yeah, total surprise. I mean, I just didn't see it coming, like just about everyone else.
SHAWN GRAHAM: Thank you, Mr. Brokaw.
CASEY SECOR: Nothing further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may step down.
CASEY SECOR: The Defense calls Brice Mankowski.