6.Carolyn Williford — Direct/Cross/Redirect
397 linesCAROLYN WILLIFORD, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Have a seat, please, ma'am. Once you're seated, speak up loud and clear, state your full name, spelling your last.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I'm Carolyn Williford, W-I-L-L-I-F-O-R-D.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SECOR:
CASEY SECOR: Ms. Williford, tell us how you know Tim?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Junior or Senior?
CASEY SECOR: Well, start with Junior?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: He is my stepson.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And so you were married to big Tim, Tim, Sr., at some point?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: And then what was the timeframe of y'all's marriage?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well -- the timeframe, well, we were together for a total of about 15 years.
CASEY SECOR: And was it about 1991 that you were married?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct, April.
CASEY SECOR: And how old were you then?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Nineteen.
CASEY SECOR: Was that your first marriage?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes.
CASEY SECOR: And how old was Tim, Jr. at that point?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: He was ten years old.
CASEY SECOR: All right. And did you and Tim, Sr. have any children of your own?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes. We have two boys.
CASEY SECOR: Two boys. And they are?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Tyler and Travis.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And when were they born?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Tyler was born in '91 and Travis was born in '92.
CASEY SECOR: All right. So, I guess, the difference in age between Timmy and Tyler and Travis is about ten years, is that right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Ten or eleven years. They're Irish twins.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Did you know members of Timmy's -- little Tim's mom's family, Cynthia's family?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes, I did.
CASEY SECOR: And I probably should have started with this. Where were y'all living at this time, when you and Tim, Sr. got married?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, we moved into Carpentersville.
CASEY SECOR: In what State?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Illinois.
CASEY SECOR: And you knew members of Cynthia's family from that area?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes, I did. Ingleside is the town that they resided in.
CASEY SECOR: Did you know them before you and Tim, Sr. got together?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: No, I did not.
CASEY SECOR: All right. And what members of Cynthia's family did you know?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I knew his Auntie Martha, which would be her sister, and I also knew her other sister, Linda, and I also knew her brother, Domingo.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And did you know Christopher?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes, I met him as well as Eddie and his grandmother, Maggie.
CASEY SECOR: All right. And did you know an aunt named Sheila?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes.
CASEY SECOR: And those all would have been siblings to Cynthia --
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Right.
CASEY SECOR: -- Tim's mother? All right. And I'm not asking you to try to make a diagnosis, but in your interactions with those members of Cynthia's family, were they normal people or did they strike you as abnormal?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: They struck me as abnormal. I had a -- I just felt that there was something wrong that the grandmother never came to visit her grandson or participated in events, just great events that go in your life, you know. I don't know, you're in gymnastics and you see him up there jumping around, it's a great thing, you know, sharing birthdays, sending a Christmas card, just love, I don't know.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. And that was Maggie?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct.
CASEY SECOR: And Domingo, that was an uncle of Tim's, right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct.
CASEY SECOR: And did he die recently?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct. He's -- he actually -- I'm very good friends with his wife. And he committed suicide and shot himself. I think it's almost two years now.
CASEY SECOR: Oh, okay. Two years ago?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Uh-huh. Maybe less.
CASEY SECOR: When you and Tim, Sr. got married and had Tyler and Travis, what is -- what is Tim, Jr.'s sort of role in the family now that you have your own sort of little family?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, he's their big brother and, I don't know, family. All together as one.
CASEY SECOR: And you wanted to make him part of your family?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Absolutely.
CASEY SECOR: Did problems arise in your marriage with Tim, Sr.?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I think in every relationship, there are problems, yes.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. And did alcohol play a role in the problems that you and Tim, Sr. had?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes.
CASEY SECOR: And did your relationship ever get physically violent?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes.
CASEY SECOR: Were there ever times that the police were called because of the violence in your home?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct.
CASEY SECOR: And was the violence that was occurring in your home, were those things that were witnessed by Tyler and Travis and Tim, Jr.?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Unfortunately, yes.
CASEY SECOR: Was there ever a time that you know that one of your young boys actually was the person that called the police?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes. He was actually the one. He crawled out of a window and he went over to my neighbors and had asked them to call the police.
CASEY SECOR: And that was because of violence between you and Tim, Sr.?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: When Tim, Jr. was little, Tim, Sr. loved him?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Absolutely.
CASEY SECOR: Was he also hard on him?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I think yes, he was. Like all parents, they expect certain expectations for our children to meet, achievements, education, social skills. You know, what I think every parent wants for their kids.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Were there times that you thought that he went too far in terms of him being rough on Tim, Jr.?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yeah, I do believe that there was times that he was rough on little Timmy. You know, short fused, I guess is what you could say about Tim, Sr., but, you know, there was times that I think that he could have refrained from certain verbiage.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. And you loved Timmy, I know. You've told me that before.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Uh-huh.
CASEY SECOR: Can you tell me, though, was there a time ever when he was young, growing up in your household where -- is it possible that things that you did or said to him could have made him feel unwanted or unloved?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: In all honesty, there may have been times where I have said things to him that I may have hurt his feelings, absolutely.
CASEY SECOR: Now, when things were rough at your house when Tim, Jr. was growing up, where would he go sometimes to spend time?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: So, a lot of times, if he would be angry or he would get upset with me, like, most, I guess, moms, you know, it would be pick up your clothes, you know, clean up your room, why do you have that dish in the bedroom, you know I don't like that, you know, because we're going to get bugs, just things in general. And I also believe that he -- you know, he -- there was -- it was kind of a respectful thing and a disrespectful thing. He didn't like rules and he would get upset with me and then he would go outside. A lot of times, he would just go in his room, depending on the home that we had. We lived in two residences, one was in Carpentersville and the other one was in Algonquin, Illinois.
CASEY SECOR: And did he ever go spend time at his grandmother's house, Roberta's house when things were rough at your house?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes.
CASEY SECOR: Now, would you consider the environment at Roberta's house at that time, was it much better than what was going on in your house?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I don't think so.
CASEY SECOR: And why is that?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, I believe that there was, you know, a lot of partying going on. She also had a teenage son, so, like, I guess, most teenagers, you know, they tend to drink or party or whatever. And I think that there was smoking going on. I don't know exactly to what extent, but, you know, so -- I mean, those things are going on in my home, so what you decide is correct or wrong. I think any time probably drugs or alcohol is around is probably not a good environment for anybody.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. But you knew that there was violence in Roberta's home as well, too, right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes.
CASEY SECOR: And the people there, adults and nonadults, were drinking and doing drugs at times?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Uh-huh.
COURT REPORTER: Is that a yes?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes. I'm sorry.
CASEY SECOR: Tell us about Tim, Jr.'s relationship with his Aunt Elaine.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, I think his relationship with Auntie Elaine, it was great. I mean, if you knew Elaine, she was oh, my goodness, sorry, she was just a great lady and she was a good auntie. And it was a really hard time because I think he missed her because, I don't know, Elaine could pick anybody up and give you a hug and you just knew her presence. I don't know how to explain it. She was just beautiful from the inside out.
CASEY SECOR: And she died pretty young, right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes, she was very young. And there were three other children that were her children. It was a very tough and hard time.
CASEY SECOR: And I think Timmy was around 13 years old when Elaine died?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I believe so.
CASEY SECOR: Tell us about the effect Elaine's death had on the family.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I would think that -- I don't know how every family can explain cancer. I don't think there's a word that describes it. I think it emotionally takes you from the inside out and you have a lot of strains. My husband, he drank a lot. Probably for good reason, they were very close. I don't know, the car broke down, you picked her up, you'd find her. The kids needed to be watched, we watched. You know, I don't know, all the kids -- Timmy, I think it was hard on him. I mean, you see her laying on the couch and, you know, you don't want to put her in a facility because it's family. You don't do that. Everybody pitches in. And Timmy saw that on a daily basis and I can't imagine it was easy. It was not easy for us, I can't imagine it was easy for the children either.
CASEY SECOR: And she had children, too, isn't that right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct. Bubba, Jennifer and JoJo.
CASEY SECOR: And when Elaine died, where did her three kids go to live?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, they were having a custody battle. And again, Timmy's around this. You know, it's a -- it's just a very ugly situation, two people struggling to hold onto something that they loved. And there was just a lot of going back and forth. The kids did stay with us in our home in Algonquin. And I think of that -- I think our house in Algonquin was beautiful, beautiful yard. The kids played all the time, forts, laughing. I don't know, it was just a, they were good kids.
CASEY SECOR: I think you already mentioned that after Elaine's death, Tim, Sr.'s drinking got worse, is that right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: It did.
CASEY SECOR: Did his violence increase in the home?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: It did.
CASEY SECOR: And what was one of the signs that you saw during that period of time that you knew you were going to have an unpleasant evening when you saw Tim?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, pretty much, I can say if Tim came home with a bottle of Crown Royal, I was pretty sure we were going to have a hard night. Any bottle at that point, too, I would say would be a hard night. You know, when somebody is drinking and they're upset and there's a lot of emotions going on, yeah.
CASEY SECOR: And --
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: And little Timmy knew it, too. He knew when his dad was drinking he was not the nicest person either. I mean, it's very hard. You know, he's always tried to do the right thing, applying himself, showing us he could make good grades, you know. I mean, he got a job at Wal-Mart. I thought it was pretty amazing. He would get on that bicycle and he would ride to his job, which, I mean, it was probably, I'm going to say, seven to eight miles uphill, which I could never do. But, you know, he would go, he would put his backpack, get his bottle of water, he'd go to his job, he'd come home. He was pretty good.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. And there were times that the police came and Tim, Sr. was arrested, right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct. There were times when the police came and they knew -- so we're in kind of a, I consider it a small town. I'm born and raised there. And the police would just take him away for 24 hours off the premises, you know, because they knew the situation that was going on at my home.
CASEY SECOR: But it wasn't only just take him away, sometimes he was actually charged, right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct.
CASEY SECOR: Tell us, if you would, just about when Timmy starts going to church.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: So he would go to church on Sunday mornings. A bus would come pick him up and he would go off to this Baptist Church. And they would pick him up pretty much about, I don't know, 7:30, 8:00 and then he wouldn't come back until, like, 12:30, 1:00, 1:30. I find it kind of odd. I'm a born and raised Lutheran and I would go to church. And the only time I was in church for more than usually an hour and a half is communion because, obviously, communion is a little longer service for everybody, you know, to take the blood and body of Christ. So it was just different. I thought it was very odd that he was attending this Baptist Church and gone for so long. I didn't understand what that church was really about.
CASEY SECOR: And how old was he when he started doing this?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: So he was going there, I would say definitely -- we were living -- so he was 10 years old, 11 years old, 12 years old.
CASEY SECOR: And when he got home from his time at church, what types of things would he do on the weekends?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: So like every kid, he'd come running up from the church with his Bible in his hand, happy about what he had heard for that time. He would eat, interact with his brothers a little bit and then he would go off on his own to his room.
CASEY SECOR: And was that a normal thing for him to do?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: It was a normal thing.
CASEY SECOR: Throughout the time that you lived with Timmy, that you were a part of that family, did he ask you about Cynthia, his mother?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes, he did ask about his mom. And it wasn't really so much that he was asking me about his mom. You have to realize that I have two children that Tim and I share. And when you are hugging them or loving them or kissing them, you could see that he was yearning. He was wanting this, too. You know, it's very hard to have a connection with a 12-year-old and to step in the picture and try and be a good person. But, you know, the kids were -- he interacted with the boys. But, again, it was -- you know, Tyler and Travis took a lot of my time. You got to imagine, they were 11 months apart. So, pretty much, they walked at the same time. They talked at the same time. So it was like having twins. So it was lot of -- it was a lot of times with everything going on.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. When he did ask about Cynthia, though, what types of things did he want to know about her?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: If I knew her, if I heard stories about her. He would sometimes tell me that, you know, she was -- and I hate using this terminology, she was nuts, crazy, which I don't particular care for that word as well, but it was asked. And I would be like, I don't know, Timmy. I have never met your mother. She's never contacted us. I have never -- this is back in the day when you have a home phone, not phones everywhere. And she never visited, she never sent cards, she never -- nothing with him. Again, I don't understand that part of it. That was -- and I felt for him. I mean, you know, here he is doing this stuff, you know, looking for a pat on the back or, you know, a hug and a kiss. You know, I remember him graduating, it was huge. But yeah, I don't, he just, she never -- he would just ask. And I didn't have the answers, unfortunately.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. You were -- or Tim was living with you when he got into that first car accident, is that right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct.
CASEY SECOR: And he was 15, I think, is that right?
CASEY SECOR: Tell us what you knew about the circumstances of him and his cousins using the car and what happened.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: So Tim and I went out for the night and we had let Timmy go to his cousins' house. We always tried to get him to go with his cousins because we thought it was important for him to be, you know, around his mom's family so that -- you know, that he could have a relationship with his cousins, his aunties and uncles. And we had received a phone call that he was in an accident. It was a bad one from what we could gather. We didn't get all the details, we just knew that he was at Good Shepherd Hospital. And off the top of my mind, you know, there's -- maybe I might not have been his biological mother, but in an instant, I knew Martha's phone number right off the top of my head.
CASEY SECOR: And tell us again who Martha is.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Martha is Timmy's aunt, who he was with those cousins.
CASEY SECOR: And that's on his mother's side?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct. And so we got to the hospital and -- you know, of course, we were grateful that he was okay. I mean, it was awful. I'm sure -- and I don't mean to sound selfish because I'm sure everybody's a parent or grandmother or whatever -- whatever you are or what role you play in your family, it was devastating. And, you know, we were worried about him. And they did the proper medical examinations that we truly believed that were followed.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I will tell you, it put a very bad strain on the relationship that I had with his aunt and uncle because I had trusted, we had trusted that those kids, when we give them to them that they are to watch them and make sure that they're okay and not get in situations as best as they could.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. So were you upset about them letting the kids use the car?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I was just upset in general that -- yes, they were using the car and yes, that they were drinking. And if they knew it, it shouldn't have happened, you know. He's my son, what do you expect. You know, I'm protecting him. I'm sure I probably said some terrible words to them and to be honest to you, to this day, I don't regret them.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. After Tim's accident and head injury, did you notice a difference in his personality, his behavior?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: No. He was a normal teenager to me.
CASEY SECOR: Right. And the things that you noticed going forward, you thought were just part of puberty, adolescence, becoming a teenager?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yeah.
CASEY SECOR: And what types of things did you see in him during that period of time?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: During that period of time, he was, you know, I just thought was a normal teenager, just talk back, yeah, whatever, you know. And I would be like Tim, why do you have to walk on my clean kitchen floor. If anybody knows me, I have a very clean kitchen floor. And I'll be honest with you, it was just stuff like that, just in general. He was just a teenager, I don't know. Pick up your bike in the driveway, you know, I don't know.
CASEY SECOR: Did he become more isolated after that?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I feel he was. He was by himself a lot and it was bothersome. I had talked to Tim and told Tim, you know, Tim, I don't know what's going on with him, but something's going on with him. I don't really know. He's a teenager. Talk to him about, as everybody else would talk to their children, I'm sure I'm probably not the only person, drugs, sex, life.
CASEY SECOR: And did you know that he started smoking pot after that?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I did know that he was smoking pot after that. I had brought it to Tim's attention because it was just a different Timmy. I could just tell. You know, the Timmy that would look at you that would get mad at you because he left a dish in his room was one thing. This was a different Timmy that was coming home. And you could tell there was definitely something going on where he was probably participating in, yes, I would say marijuana.
CASEY SECOR: And those things were, obviously, different from the way he was when he was younger?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, yeah, when he was younger, yeah.
CASEY SECOR: But you didn't think that it was the car accident that caused those things?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Honestly, I'll be very -- I did not know that there was that extent of that injury. I blame myself today because if I would have known that he needed medical attention or, you know, something that was going to cause him to create chaos in his life or maybe not have him be able to participate in a sport or further education, I would have had him examined.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. After the car accident and Timmy becoming a little bit older of a teenager and some of these behaviors, how are things between Tim and Big Tim?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, it got a little rougher because, unfortunately, we lost another family member, which was Tim's brother. I called him Little Larry.
CASEY SECOR: And what was the effect on the family of Little Larry's death?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That was -- the first strike when Elaine was gone, it was a tornado. The second strike with the brother being gone was just a monsoon. It was an aggression of drinking, verbiage. I think it was -- it was a tough time and I know it was tough on Timmy. You know, here we are seeing every family member in every direction being broke. Sort of like, you know, you look around and you're just trying to every day wake up and make it a good situation and try and get through the best that you can. Timmy was close with Little Larry. They were only a few years apart. They played games together, video games together, you know, swam in the swimming pool. I mean, they were like brothers in a sense because they were closer in age as opposed to his brothers.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. Were there confrontations in the home between Tim, Sr. and Tim, Jr.?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes. Confrontations meaning, like, I don't know, Timmy would get a little sarcastic from time to time because he thought he was right. Didn't really want to hear anything that Big Tim had to say because he thought it was wrong. Timmy was pretty smart. So there is some times when I have to say that I've learned some stuff from him. I'm not embarrassed to say so. But it was butting heads. They butt heads quite often with just arguing about stuff.
CASEY SECOR: Were there times that you actually had to get in between them?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes. There was times where I would get in between Tim, Sr. and Tim, Jr. And once again, I protected him. I wouldn't let anybody harm him or hurt him. And I just -- they just both needed to separate, just take a breath, just, guys, just - and I don't know how to explain that because unless you're in the situation, you really can't.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. How did you feel about Tim, Jr.'s decision to go into the Navy?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: In all honesty, I was shocked.
CASEY SECOR: Why?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, if he couldn't listen to simple instructions like picking up your room, I couldn't see where he would go into the service and they would be telling him what to do, how to dress, just whatever they asked in the service. Because I don't think -- I just thought wow, he's really going to listen to somebody that's going to tell him what to do? It just shocked me, to be honest with you. I did not expect him to go to the service.
CASEY SECOR: Did you think he was tough enough to handle it?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I didn't think he was tough enough to handle it either. He was -- he was very emotional. And his feelings were genuine, don't get me wrong, but he had issues.
CASEY SECOR: And what was your understanding of why he made it such a short period of time -- I shouldn't say made it, didn't make it, but was only in the Navy for such a short period of time?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: So it was my understanding that he had popped his ear drum to get out. Now, I was not with Mr. Jones, Tim, Sr., so I don't know, but that was what I was told. And I did not even know that he had a -- that he was discharged for mental evaluation.
CASEY SECOR: After he comes home from trying to get into the Navy, does he move back in with you?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: No. Tim and I were done at that point.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. He ends up getting arrested for some things that involved you, right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: And tell us what those were.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: So I was missing some checks in my checkbook and there was some credit cards that were used. They were pretty high. And, unfortunately, back in the day, we didn't have a lot of money, so it was really -- and things, obviously, I don't know if they have changed or not, but I'd be glad to know that now. But it would be for everything -- or for every check that was bounced, it was like $125 charge. Charges I think were at one time for the credit -- for the checking account was $2800. I can't remember all of the details, but it was a pretty good amount that I know that we couldn't take care of.
CASEY SECOR: That's money that Tim, Jr. had taken from you through your checkbook or credit card?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: And he had some other charges as well, isn't that correct?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct. He was -- I believe he was high. I'm not sure what he was on, but he had taken a vehicle. And that was pretty much the extent of that.
CASEY SECOR: And you're aware, obviously, that he went to prison?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Correct.
CASEY SECOR: And when he gets out of prison, are you and Tim, Sr. communicating still or not?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes, but not really. You have to understand, I have Tyler and Travis as well. Not saying -- pushing Timmy aside at this time, but I have to focus on the things I need to do to take care of my family and to make sure that we're okay.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am. But had things gotten bad enough that you had left that relationship?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes. You can't fight every battle. You know, you have to pick your choices. That's the way I've been raised. You make decisions and then -- you know, obviously, you want to make the right ones. When things happened with Timmy -- I know that you say it was prison. In my mind, it was never prison, I thought it was boot camp. I thought he was going to go to a boot camp and he was going to work on himself and they were going to provide the service for him to make sure that he gets on the correct path. So in my mind, he was on the correct path. He had made the decision and he knew what he was up against and he -- I believe it was a good one. Then I no longer really speak to Tim that much because I am making sure that I am now going on, I guess you would say, my boot camp.
CASEY SECOR: And I think you're right, it was a type of boot camp, but it was part of the prison system. But you're right, it was a boot camp.
CASEY SECOR: May I have just a moment, Your Honor?
SUZANNE MAYES: Objection to relevance, Your Honor, and remoteness in time.
CASEY SECOR: May I approach?
THE COURT: This would be a good time to break. The jury can go on to lunch and we'll take that up. Go to your jury room. Don't discuss the case. Do what you want to do. We'll be back at 1:45. (Whereupon, the jury was excused from the courtroom for a lunch break.)
THE COURT: Proffer your examination.
CASEY SECOR: Thank you, sir. May I approach?
THE COURT: Yeah.
CASEY SECOR: Ms. Williford, I'm just going to show you what's been marked for identification purposes Defense 262, 263, 264, 265 and 266. Do you recognize those photos?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I do. They're family portraits.
CASEY SECOR: Let's talk about 262. If you will, just tell us what that's a picture of.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That's Easter. That's Tyler, Travis and Timmy.
CASEY SECOR: And Tyler and Travis are your two kids?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is correct. And this was actually after an accident with little Timmy?
CASEY SECOR: How can you tell?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Because the cast on the leg.
CASEY SECOR: 263, tell us what's in that picture.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: So this is the boys' birthday party. Actually, I believe this is their fifth and sixth birthday party at our house in Algonquin.
CASEY SECOR: When you say the boys, you mean Tyler and Travis?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Tyler and Travis and Timmy.
CASEY SECOR: 264, what's in that picture?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That's Timmy -- I believe that's Jordan in the middle and then myself and we're at Kiddie Land.
CASEY SECOR: And do you remember what the name of that ride is?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: The scrambler.
CASEY SECOR: The scrambler. And 265?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That's at Great America on the log ride with Tim, JoJo and Timmy.
CASEY SECOR: And who is JoJo?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: JoJo is Elaine's youngest daughter.
CASEY SECOR: And number 266?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is Tyler, Travis and Timmy at Christmas at our house.
CASEY SECOR: Thank you very much.
CASEY SECOR: Your Honor, Defense Exhibits 262, 263, 264, 265, and 266 just described by Ms. Williford depict the period of time that Timmy lived with Ms. Williford and depict people that she testified to, specifically, her two sons, Tyler and Travis, as well as the daughter of Tim's Aunt Elaine that died and shows the relationship between Tim and his two half brothers. If they were not admissible because of remoteness in time as alleged by the State, then the entirety of Ms. Williford's testimony would not be relevant. It obviously is relevant. The jury just heard it. The photographs help to substantiate it, corroborate it, give the jury a depiction of that period of time. And I think that it is clearly and unequivocally relevant to her testimony and to help the jury understand that period of time and the relationships of the people that she testified about.
THE COURT: Your definition of relevance and mine is slightly different. Y'all have put up a lot of testimony. The State has been very, very relaxed in objecting to relevance. I agree with you, it's consistent with her testimony. I don't -- how does that -- other than the one picture of Tim, Jr. with a cast on his leg showing a time when he was injured just after the car wreck, how is that relevant to his mental condition in 2014? I mean, the injury, I'm going to stretch and give you that one. Sure, it's childhood pictures of him and his dad and them and Christmas and Easter, whatever, but how is that probative for your case of mental issue, challenge, whatever -- however you characterize that, but your defense?
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir. As testified to by Dr. Agharkar as well as I believe Dr. Bigler, the social and family history is a necessary component of an expert's evaluation of a criminal defendant for purposes of a defense of not guilty by reason of insanity. And that is because many mental health conditions or diseases are a combination of genetic inheritable characteristics in combination with the environment in which those inheritable characteristics are raised and grow. It is our position and substantiated by our experts that Tim has the genetic components for serious mental illness. We are, therefore, I believe entitled to present as part of our defense a necessary component of it, the environmental factors that contributed to his mental health condition. Ms. Williford has testified to the period of time that she lived with Tim, Jr., which was a very traumatic time period, death of two significant family members, violence in the home, alcoholism --
THE COURT: And those don't show that.
CASEY SECOR: No, but they show -- they show that that was --
THE COURT: They show otherwise.
CASEY SECOR: Which is an important component because the point is not to say that it was all a disastrous, violent nightmare, that there were good moments. Because it is not my intention to present these witnesses as people that are somehow not to be respected. My point is for them to elicit information that is sometimes difficult and embarrassing, but also to say that they loved Tim and they were trying hard. And these photographs show that they were doing so and I believe helps to preserve their dignity and their credibility with the jury.
THE COURT: All right. Let me hear from Ms. Mayes.
SUZANNE MAYES: Yes, sir, Your Honor. Our objection is that they are not relevant or probative to any issue currently before the jury. They are remote in time. We're talking before 2000. I don't believe the witness put a date on those, but the high school graduation would have been around 2000. Those photos appear to be before that period of time.
THE COURT: She named the cast on the leg as near the wreck, 15 years of age. She named that.
SUZANNE MAYES: As Your Honor has said, if you're inclined to let that in as corroboration of that event, it's the other pictures, Your Honor, that are just cumulative at this point of everything else that's already been offered. In the penalty phase, it's an entirely different story, but in this phase, Your Honor, they're not relevant and remote in time.
THE COURT: Anything else, Mr. Secor?
CASEY SECOR: May I have just one moment?
THE COURT: Sure.
CASEY SECOR: Your Honor, I would just add in addition to my other arguments that I believe the photographs are corroborative of testimony from Ms. Williford, testimony that was not objected to and I believe that, therefore, it is by definition relevant. And that's all I have.
THE COURT: All right. I'm going to admit subject to your objection the picture of the three of them with the cast on the leg. The other ones, I can't imagine the State challenging. I don't think the other ones are probative or relevant to his turmoil at home if that's one of the environmental factors the experts testified to. I'm not following that. So I think it's 262 is the --
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: -- one with the leg.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: So that will come in. The other three, I don't see the relevance. I think they're cumulative. (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 262 was admitted into evidence.) (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 263 through 266 were marked for identification only.)
THE COURT: Anything else we need to proper from her before we go to lunch or when we come back?
CASEY SECOR: No, sir.
THE COURT: Okay. Then we'll be down till 1:45. That's an hour and 15 approximately.
CASEY SECOR: And Your Honor, may I just note my objection to the Court the suppression of those additional photographs?
THE COURT: Sure. Yeah, you made a good record of that.
CASEY SECOR: Thank you.
(Whereupon, a lunch break was taken.)
THE COURT: Bring the jury. (Whereupon, the jury came into open court at approximately 1:40 p.m.)
THE COURT: Ms. Williford, you're still under oath. Mr. Secor.
CASEY SECOR: Thank you, sir. May I approach?
THE COURT: Yes. CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. SECOR:
CASEY SECOR: Ms. Williford, I'm going to show you what's been marked for identification purposes as Defense Exhibit 262 and just ask if you recognize that?
CASEY SECOR: And what is that?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Family picture from Easter.
CASEY SECOR: And who is in that?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Travis, Tyler and Timmy.
CASEY SECOR: Your Honor, at this time, Defense would offer Defense 262 into evidence and ask for permission to publish.
THE COURT: Sure. And then when you put it up there, let her describe who they are left to right.
CASEY SECOR: I will, yes, sir.
THE COURT: That way, we'll have it on the --
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: -- record.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir. (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit number 262 was admitted into evidence.)
CASEY SECOR: Ms. Williford, if you will, just tell the jury who's who in that picture?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Travis is in the Superman, Timmy is in the middle and Tyler is next to Timmy.
CASEY SECOR: And what's that on Tim's leg?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That is the cast from the accident he was in.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. Is that the same accident where he sustained the head injury?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That would be correct.
CASEY SECOR: Tell the jury about the relationship between these three?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: They were -- they were definitely three, three brothers. Laughing, Easter, a lot of grass everywhere. Just part of our little holiday fun time.
CASEY SECOR: And what was it like for them -- from your perspective, obviously, what was it like for them when Tim moved away from Illinois?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: When Tim moved to Mississippi?
CASEY SECOR: Yes, ma'am.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: It was -- it was hard on the kids. It's a separation. And, you know, it wasn't something that maybe 30, 40 miles away, it's an entire different state, so things were not included, like, he wasn't there for a lot of stuff the kids participated in.
CASEY SECOR: Yeah. What's the role that you see that Tim has in Tyler and Travis's life?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: He was good to his brothers. When they needed advice, you know, they would call. If they just wanted a laugh or goof around, they always seemed to goof around a lot. More importantly, Timmy was always about telling them to do better and make sure you stay in school and get educated. So he was like a -- he was definitely like a father role. It was very good for the boys.
CASEY SECOR: And did that continue when Tim was living in South Carolina as well?
CASEY SECOR: Has it continued since Tim's arrest?
SUZANNE MAYES: Objection to relevance, Your Honor.
THE COURT: I'll allow it. Overruled.
CASEY SECOR: Has he continued to encourage them, do you believe?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes, absolutely.
CASEY SECOR: You testified about the real serious problems that existed in your marriage to Tim, Sr.?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Uh-huh.
CASEY SECOR: Are you here at this trial with other members of Tim's family?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I am here with my husband and my children -- well, my one son is here right now.
CASEY SECOR: And you're here with Tim, Sr --
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Tim, Sr.
CASEY SECOR: -- and his wife, Julie?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: And Julie, yes.
CASEY SECOR: And I'm sure that's in some ways difficult, bringing up the past?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: It's very difficult.
CASEY SECOR: Yeah. But are you trying to work through that?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I am. And I think -- I think -- fortunately, I believe that we're doing a pretty good job supporting and loving each other for the person that we love, which is Little Tim.
CASEY SECOR: Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate it.
THE COURT: Ms. Mayes.
SUZANNE MAYES: Yes, sir, Your Honor. May it please the Court?
THE COURT: Yes.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. MAYES:
SUZANNE MAYES: Good afternoon.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Good afternoon.
SUZANNE MAYES: So just to get the timeline right, you married Timothy's father, the Defendant's father around 1992?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That would be 1991.
SUZANNE MAYES: All right. And then he moved in to live with you and his father around 1992, does that sound right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That would be correct.
SUZANNE MAYES: And then he continued living with you guys up through his high school graduation?
SUZANNE MAYES: In 2000?
SUZANNE MAYES: And then, ultimately, you and his father were divorced in 2002?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That would be about the timeline, correct.
SUZANNE MAYES: About 17 years ago. Now, part of what you know about the Defendant is that he was abusing both alcohol and drugs during high school, correct?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That would be correct.
SUZANNE MAYES: And one of the drugs that he was using in high school was a hallucinogenic, LSD, also known as acid, correct?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I do not recall that.
SUZANNE MAYES: He didn't inform of that -- he hasn't informed you of that since?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I was never told about LSD.
SUZANNE MAYES: And did you ever say to the Defendant when he was a child that, quote, I don't like you. You are in the way?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I do not recall that.
SUZANNE MAYES: That would be a false statement?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I can't say something that I don't remember.
SUZANNE MAYES: And you and his father were divorced in 2002, so when's the last time you actually saw the Defendant or had any contact with him?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, so you have to imagine like when he would talk to his brothers, you know, it was kind of speaker, so it was probably, I don't know, in the driveway of my house. I can't give you an exact date, but when they would talk to their brother, it would be like hi, Timmy, how's it going or, you know.
SUZANNE MAYES: Has it been within the last five years?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Well, it would be before --
SUZANNE MAYES: The last ten years?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Before the children --
SUZANNE MAYES: Before the --
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: -- passed.
SUZANNE MAYES: -- children were born?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: No. It was -- the children were born.
SUZANNE MAYES: Before he killed the children?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yes, before he killed the children.
SUZANNE MAYES: So by 2000, 2001, when he was still living at that home with you guys, after the Navy didn't work out, at that point, he advanced onto hard drugs, such as crack cocaine and heroin. Were you aware of that?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Absolutely not.
SUZANNE MAYES: Okay.
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Absolutely not.
SUZANNE MAYES: I know you had alluded earlier during your testimony of some of the legal issues that he had at the time --
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Correct.
SUZANNE MAYES: -- his arrest and his incarceration. That was drug related, as a result of crack cocaine, are you aware of that?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I did not know the specifics of what drugs that he was on when he was arrested.
SUZANNE MAYES: Was he still living with you guys during that timeframe?
SUZANNE MAYES: One of the things you mentioned during direct testimony was that he didn't seem a fit for the Navy in your eyes. I think you put it that you were surprised because he really had -- he didn't want to follow even simple rules, like cleaning the room?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: From a mother's perspective view, yes, I would be surprised that he would do well there considering there's a lot of instructions when you join the service.
SUZANNE MAYES: And I think one of the things you said on direct examination was he didn't like rules?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: He didn't like his mom's rules, which were my rules of picking up, cleaning, stuff like that.
SUZANNE MAYES: Ordinary rules that teenagers would follow?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: Yep, any regular teenager, yes.
SUZANNE MAYES: And then when he was living in the home with you and his father, you guys did your best as parents to teach right from wrong, correct?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I feel we did, yes.
SUZANNE MAYES: And he understood those teachings, correct?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I believe so, yes.
SUZANNE MAYES: But he didn't like rules and you kind of saw from the outset that he probably wasn't going to be a good fit for the Navy?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I don't really understand that question. Could you maybe repeat it for me?
SUZANNE MAYES: So he lasted in the Navy about six weeks. Does that sound right to you?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: That would be correct.
SUZANNE MAYES: And I think one of the things you testified to on direct examination was that you were thinking he was let go or that there was a discharge due to a medical condition, right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I was due to believe that it was because of his ear drum.
SUZANNE MAYES: Are you aware that it also included -- the discharge included defective enrollment because of his addiction to alcohol and drugs?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I did not know why Timmy was let go.
SUZANNE MAYES: And then he came back and resided with you guys again for a little while until he got into the drugs and the arrest that we've already talked about?
SUZANNE MAYES: So with all that in mind and your last contact with him having been somewhere around the time of the kids have been born, but it was just brief contact in the driveway, right?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: No. Timmy visited me. He brought his children and Amber to my home to see his brothers, and he did stay with us.
SUZANNE MAYES: Did you ever travel to their home here in Lexington County to visit?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: No, I did not.
SUZANNE MAYES: And you were not in contact with the Defendant on the night of August 28th, 2014, correct?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: I was not.
SUZANNE MAYES: You don't have any personal knowledge regarding the events of that night, correct?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: No, I do not know any of those details from that night.
SUZANNE MAYES: Thank you.
THE COURT: Mr. Secor.
CASEY SECOR: Just briefly, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sure.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SECOR:
CASEY SECOR: Ms. Williford, you said that you did the best to teach your kids right from wrong when they were growing up, is that right?
CASEY SECOR: And did you mean that for Tyler, Travis and Timmy?
CASEY SECOR: And I don't doubt that you tried to do that, but do you think that the example that was being set in your family and in Timmy's family, was that one that is -- that you would describe as being healthy all the time?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: It's not healthy at all times.
CASEY SECOR: Because there was violence between adults in the family?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: There was violence between my husband and I, yes.
CASEY SECOR: And there was serious substance abuse?
CAROLYN WILLIFORD: There was definitely substance abuse.
CASEY SECOR: Thank you, ma'am.
THE COURT: You may step down.