9.Timothy Jones, Sr. — Proffer (Recall) (Part 1)
181 linesMR. SECOR: Yes, sir. The Defense calls Tim Jones, Sr.
TIM JONES, SR., being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: Timothy Ray Jones, J-O-N-E-S. PROFFER DIRECT EXAMINATION
By Mr. Secor:
MR. SECOR: Mr. Jones, we're going to -- I'm just going to ask you a few questions about your childhood. I think we talked about it when you testified the first time around outside of the presence of the jury. But I just want to go over some of that stuff again. Is that all right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Sure.
MR. SECOR: All right. Your mother is?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Roberta Thornsberry.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir. And your dad -- your biological dad was who?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Theodore Montane.
MR. SECOR: And in addition to being your dad, Ted Montane was also what?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Grandfather.
MR. SECOR: Step-grandfather?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. SECOR: You were born in what year?
MR. SECOR: How old was your mother, Roberta, when you were born?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Twelve.
MR. SECOR: How do you feel about Ted Montane?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I don't care for him.
MR. SECOR: Do you -- tell us about your memories of him beating your mother.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I have quite a few memories of it and the most vivid was when she forget the keys once and he shoved her right through the wall. He'd beat her with a hammer and throw water in her face, you know. I mean, he'd knock her out, and then throw water in her face to bring her back. But, at least, he was nice enough to put a little rag on the hammer so it wouldn't bust her head open.
MR. SECOR: And these were things that you saw yourself?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. SECOR: Where did you all live when you were growing up with Ted and your mom?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I really don't -- I mean, we were all over the place. We moved all the time. I don't really remember where we lived. I just remember, you know, the houses.
MR. SECOR: Yeah. Do you remember why or what was -- at the time, why did you think you were moving so much?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, you know, I'd like to say I really remember exactly. But, you know, I learned when I got older that, I knew because he was just running. He was running from the law.
MR. SECOR: Okay. What was your -- what was normal, every day life for you? Did you feel safe and secure in your home life?
MR. SECOR: Did you feel -- were you scared all the time?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Definitely. And I was scared for my mom.
MR. SECOR: Eventually, I think your mother was able to get away from Ted. Is that right?
MR. SECOR: And do you remember that period of time?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I do.
MR. SECOR: How old were you, do you think, approximately?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I want to say, probably about five.
MR. SECOR: And when you got away from Ted, was that the end of his --
MR. SECOR: -- effect on your lives?
MR. SECOR: Why?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: For years, you know, we seemed to be running from him up until I was in, into my teens.
MR. SECOR: And your mom, she got married to --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Larry.
MR. SECOR: -- Larry and that's --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My dad.
MR. SECOR: That's the guy that you call your dad?
MR. SECOR: Now, your mom and Larry, they're still married, I know, and love each other very much. But they had some problems in their marriage when you were young?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I wouldn't call it problems in their marriage. I'd call it problems where my mom was abused all those years.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And tell us about that. Tell us about the types of things -- and she's told us some of that, too.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I mean, she would just have, you know, violent episodes, you know, and my dad loved her. He loved her with all his heart. So he just, you know, helped her to try get through it.
MR. SECOR: She was also very loving to you, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
MR. SECOR: But there were times that she was abusive to you, too, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I mean, I guess, you could say she was a little too hard here and there.
MR. SECOR: And where were you living at this point?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: We lived -- probably, Illinois.
MR. SECOR: And then, I know you said before that your mom divorced Larry briefly and married another guy.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. It was Phillip Caliendo.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir. And was she -- did she continue to have her violent episodes?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It actually got worse.
MR. SECOR: It got worse?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. SECOR: What kind of things would you find when you came home from school during that period of time?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, one time, I came home and she had just destroyed -- I mean, just busted the whole house up. And somehow, for some reason, I ended up at the hospital where her new husband, Phillip, was laying there, a heart attack.
MR. SECOR: And then, she left Phillip and got remarried to Larry again, right?
MR. SECOR: And where did you all live when she got remarried to Larry?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: We moved to, (inaudible), I believe.
MR. SECOR: Okay. That's near the O'Hare Airport?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And tell us about the plane crash.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: In '79, there was a -- there was this -- I mean, we used to ride our dirt bikes there. I mean, right there. You know, I knew that place real well. My mom was real scared because I'd skip school occasionally and I would take my bike, you know. So she knew if my bike was missing, then I was more than likely in that field. And I left my bike at my friend's, you know, and as soon as I came around the corner with my other friend -- you know, I can't really tell if I felt the explosion first or seen it because it was so close. You know, we were like right at the corner of Tuley, (phonetic), and York Road. Maybe, a mile, half a mile, and by the time it hit, it was wild. So we -- of course, as kids, you know, we ran over there to see what was going on and there was just, you didn't want to see. That's for sure.
MR. SECOR: Did you see dead bodies?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I saw body parts. I didn't see no whole body nowhere.
MR. SECOR: Okay.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: There were body parts everywhere.
MR. SECOR: How old were you at this point?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I was thirteen, fourteen, maybe.
MR. SECOR: Around that time, there were some people in your family that were involved in selling marijuana, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: A few.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And at that young age, when you were just -- before you turned a teenager -- became a teenager, did they get you involved in working in that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I guess, you could say that. Yeah. I mean, I dried some in dryers in the apartment complex.
MR. SECOR: Dried what?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Marijuana.
MR. SECOR: Okay. How would it get to your house?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My dad and a couple of cousins, I believe.
MR. SECOR: And we're talking about like small amounts or large amounts?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I think it was -- I want to say, it was three pillow cases full.
MR. SECOR: And that's -- you were helping them with that when you were about how old?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No more than 12 on that one, 11 or 12.
MR. SECOR: Tell us about the types of things that would happen in your home with your mom and Larry when your mom would be drinking. The periods of time when she would be drinking.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I mean, again, I could tell that she was having, you know, what I call, Ted flashbacks. And you could just see it in her. I mean, she was just -- she wanted so bad to fight this man back. You know, she was terrified of him --
MR. SECOR: Yeah.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: -- and Larry was -- my dad would do anything. So he didn't care. He'd just -- you know, he'd just let her go through her little stage and, you know.
MR. SECOR: Did she ever threaten people with weapons?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. She's threatened us with guns and, you know -- I mean, all kinds of things. That was when -- you know, it was just a bad time for her. I mean, I just knew -- you know, I'm her son. So I grew up as almost a friend too.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: So I could really understand, you know, the pain she went through. I mean, I seen it.
MR. SECOR: And what types of things would she say when she was threatening people?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Just -- I'll just kill everybody and get it over with so I don't have to worry about this. Stuff like that.
MR. SECOR: Did the police sometimes come?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: They did a few times.
MR. SECOR: Did you ever ask them to take her?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, there was one time -- actually, that's what caused her to quit drinking, I think. Well, I mean, that wasn't what caused, but she had an incident where she had the children with her and it scared her pretty straight, but, of course, she had said this before. So I didn't believe. So I sort of told the cops, you know, you need to arrest and, of course, she held onto me like crazy. They didn't arrest her. They looked at me like I was a fool.
MR. SECOR: So these episodes of violence that would occur, were they pretty normal, a routine part of your life?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I wouldn't call it a routine. I would just call it, you know, my mom had a -- you know, if anything just -- I mean, I don't know how to say it. Certain things would just bring, you know, those emotions out. You know, when they came out, I mean, she couldn't help it.
MR. SECOR: But you could see it coming?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. You could see when -- yeah. The best time was when Reba--
MR. SECOR: -- what do you mean by that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Reba McEntire. Have you ever seen her.
MR. SECOR: Yes.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: If you came home and that was playing, she was feeling it.
MR. SECOR: That meant that she had been drinking, you think?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, no. It meant that she had, you know, some kind of -- something reminded her of what the hell happened. You know, she would go sort of in her own space.
MR. SECOR: Tell us --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My mom wasn't trying to be abusive to us children. Not like that, but she would -- you know, not knowingly, she would go into episodes and I was -- I mean, it was just -- I mean, she'd do it the next day and she wouldn't even remember it. Not the drinking part of it, she just sort of snapped.
MR. SECOR: Tell us about the time that you saved your mom from killing herself. Take your time.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: This is when we were living in Oak Grove. And we were staying with my uncle and my aunt, Carlson and Shirley. And these are, my dad's sisters, and she just felt like -- she was tired of fighting, I guess. You know, had just sort of given up. And, of course, my aunt said -- you know, going out there and stopping her or something. They just let her go, you know. So I had to go chase her out and, you know, try to find her.
MR. SECOR: So what was your understanding of what she'd done to herself?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: She had took some pills. She tried to kill herself. My aunt told me.
MR. SECOR: And how old were you, do you think?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Nine or ten, maybe.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And how did you find her?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I kept yelling for her and she finally came out.
MR. SECOR: Are there a lot of people in your family and in Cindy's family, that you're aware of, that have mental problems?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Unfortunately.
MR. SECOR: How about drug and alcohol problems?
MR. SECOR: Do you think -- your sister, Elaine, she had some problems with that, right, before she died.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir. Yeah.
MR. SECOR: What about --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: As a matter of fact, they would say that it contributed to it. You know --
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: So she didn't feel the pain. It was too late, by the time she felt the pain.
MR. SECOR: And you mean the pain of her cancer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: And then, your brother Larry, how about him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I don't know if any of you folks have ever had to tell your parents that their baby was dead, but--
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir. He died in a motorcycle wreck?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. SECOR: And suicides in her family?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. My uncle Gene, my cousin Tammy, my Uncle George. I mean, there's -- we can go on for a while, man.
MR. SECOR: And you're aware of some people in Cynthia's family that killed themselves, as well?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. Her brother and a couple of her cousins.
MR. SECOR: Later in your life, you saw your biological dad, Ted, again, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I did.
MR. SECOR: Where was that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That was in the trailer park over by where the plane wrecked.
MR. SECOR: Okay.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It was in the eighth grade, I want to say. Yeah. In the eighth grade. I was going on to be a freshman.
MR. SECOR: And you hadn't seen him in a long time?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I hadn't seen him since -- you know, since we left.
MR. SECOR: And so, what did you think about doing when you saw him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I thought about a lot of different things, but my dad told me to be cordial and I was.
MR. SECOR: Did you think about killing him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I'd like to. Yeah.
MR. SECOR: For what he did --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I've thought about that many times.
MR. SECOR: For what he did to your mom?
MR. SECOR: And for what he did to you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My mom, more.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: May I have just a moment, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. SECOR: I think that's all I have for right now, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. All right. Are we ready to bring the jury in?
MR. SECOR: Well, if the State wants to ask any questions.
MR. HUBBARD: No questions.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Jones, I'm going to let you sit back down and they're going to call you back up when the jury gets in here.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Okay.
MR. SECOR: Your Honor, I would just ask that, of course, the testimony be allowed to be elicited in front of the jury.
THE COURT: Whether I'm right or wrong, I'm sticking with my ruling.
MR. SECOR: I understand. I just have to ask, but I appreciate it and I just respectfully request that you note our objection to the Court's ruling.
THE COURT: Sure.
(Whereupon, the jury came into open court at approximately 2:10 p.m.)
THE COURT: We're ready to continue on. Call your witness, please.