10.Timothy Jones, Sr. — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross (Recall) (Part 2)
451 linesCASEY SECOR: Yes, sir. The Defense calls Timothy Jones, Sr. TIMOTHY JONES, SR., being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Have a seat, please, sir. Once you're seated, state your full name, spelling your last.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Timothy Ray Jones. J-O-N-E-S.
CASEY SECOR: May I approach the witness?
THE COURT: You may.
CASEY SECOR: Your Honor, may I approach the witness?
THE COURT: You may.
DIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. Secor:
CASEY SECOR: Mr. Jones, I'm going to show you some pictures that I want to show the jury and you just tell me if you recognize. And these ones -- these first few are already in evidence. That's Defense Exhibit 252, 251, 140 and 142. And then, these are the ones that I would offer, as well. These have been marked for identification purposes as 326, 327, 328, 332, 236, 238, 242, 247, 245 and 246. Now, these all are pictures that you recognize as family photos?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
CASEY SECOR: I'd just like to show some of these pictures, that list that I read off, Your Honor, into evidence. The State has seen the photographs.
RICK HUBBARD: No objection.
THE COURT: All right. So I don't know all of the numbers. I didn't write then down but those that you just showed him, will be admitted without objection and I'll rule on them on a number by number basis.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And, Mr. Jones, if you will, just sort of help me sort of just tell the jury who these people are and what period of time that the picture was taken and what was going on in your lives at that point. Is that all right with you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I'll do my best.
CASEY SECOR: This is 326. Tell us, who's that (indicating)?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's my ex-wife, Cindy Granado, Timmy's mother.
CASEY SECOR: All right. And do you remember about when that picture would have been taken?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That was pretty much when I first met her. So I was 15 or 16, 16.
CASEY SECOR: You're saying that's how old you were, then?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I was 16 and she was 16.
CASEY SECOR: And she was 16, as well? And this next picture is 327. Is that her, as well?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. That's -- I believe that's about 18.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And where did you all meet?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: A friend of mine introduced me in Raleigh, Illinois.
CASEY SECOR: How long did you know each other before you all got pregnant with Tim?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: A year and a half, maybe. A year.
CASEY SECOR: And the jury's seen this picture. I believe this is 140. And who's that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's me and Timmy when he was born.
CASEY SECOR: Which was when?
CASEY SECOR: 1981?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CASEY SECOR: And where did you all -- where were you living at that point?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: We were staying in my mother's basement.
CASEY SECOR: In?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Oak Grove, Illinois, Auburn Trail, I believe.
CASEY SECOR: And how about that one?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It's Cindy and Timmy. There again, 19 or 18. You know, around 18 and a half, 19.
CASEY SECOR: And I think we talked to the jury before, but there was changes that you saw in Cindy before -- while she was pregnant with Tim, Jr., and after he was born?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I mean, she was just -- she'd just do crazy things like cut the clothes and then sit in the corner. She just seemed like she was losing her mind.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir. And we don't have to go back into it again, but she eventually, I think, left you and Tim, Jr., right?
CASEY SECOR: Or, I guess, she left with Tim, Jr., for a while?
CASEY SECOR: But did you end up getting custody of Tim?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: In the long run, yes.
CASEY SECOR: And who then becomes his sort of family after Cynthia leaves?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My mother and father and sisters.
CASEY SECOR: And who are they again?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Elaine and Roberta and Larry.
CASEY SECOR: Okay.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Larry was like his little brother.
CASEY SECOR: And what were you doing for work during that period of time when Tim was --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I was a tool and knife maker.
CASEY SECOR: Say again?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Tool and knife maker.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. In Illinois?
CASEY SECOR: This is 142. Where's that taken?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I want to say, this is Itasca. Itasca, Illinois and I was working for Illinois Tool Works in that.
CASEY SECOR: Were you living with your mom and Larry?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No. This was -- it was -- I want to say, it was me and Timmy.
CASEY SECOR: Just the two of you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I believe so.
CASEY SECOR: And how about this, this is 328. What were you all doing there?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: We were going to hit golf balls. I'm trying to remember exactly where it was at. I think it was over by -- I'm not sure. I can't tell, but I used to go and I'd do, and we'd hit golf balls. Me and Timmy.
CASEY SECOR: What other kind of stuff -- didn't you go bowling, too?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I'd do, you know, whatever he wanted to do. Bowling, golf, football, baseball. You know, he turned eventually liking wrestling and gymnastics more.
CASEY SECOR: And this is a time in his life when you all spent significant time together?
CASEY SECOR: And who's that? That's 238.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: This is the--
CASEY SECOR: -- is that just a school picture?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I believe so. I want to say, East Middle School and -- yeah. Timmy's in middle school. Not middle school--
CASEY SECOR: -- and how -- was he interested in school back in those days?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Oh, yeah. He loved school and he excelled. He was a good kid. I mean --
CASEY SECOR: What kind of stuff did he like the most in school?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Math.
CASEY SECOR: Is that why you ended up getting him a computer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
THE COURT: I'm going to name these off real quick. 326, 327 and 328 are in without objection. I believe, 141 and 42 are already in. If not, they're in now. And then, 236 and 238 have been discussed and they're in, also. That's the pictures we just saw.
COURT REPORTER: I've got exactly what you have, but I do have 142 in, but I'm not sure about 140. I'll have to check on that.
THE COURT: But 140 is now in.
COURT REPORTER: But now is in. Okay. Yes, sir. That's right.
THE COURT: Okay.
COURT REPORTER: Thank you. (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit numbers 140, 141, 142, 236, 238, 326, 327 and 328 were admitted into evidence).
CASEY SECOR: Mr. Jones, tell us about what your grandchildren, Merah, Eli, Nahtahn, Gabe and Elaine meant to you. I know -- I don't think you and Julie ever had the chance to meet Elaine.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Unfortunately, we didn't.
CASEY SECOR: But tell us -- tell the jury about what -- you called them the babies, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
CASEY SECOR: What did the babies mean to you and your family's life?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: They meant everything to me. I mean, they were -- I was--
CASEY SECOR: -- say again?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I was Papa.
CASEY SECOR: That's what they called you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
CASEY SECOR: And what did they call Julie, your wife?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: They called her Grandma.
CASEY SECOR: The summer of 2012, where did they live?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: You're talking about when they were -- Timmy and them were splitting up?
CASEY SECOR: Yeah. The summer of 2012, they lived with you in Mississippi, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know it was that far away, but, yeah.
CASEY SECOR: Okay. And what did they -- what was one of the things that you made at your house for them that summer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I made all kinds of things for them. I mean, I built a pool for them, you know, because none of them knew how to swim. So I wanted to teach them how to swim. So we put them in a pool. As a matter of fact, my son helped me.
CASEY SECOR: I'm going to show you some pictures that, I think, are from around that time. I was just wondering if you could tell us who's in the picture.
CASEY SECOR: That's 247, Your Honor. (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 247 was admitted into evidence).
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's me and Nahtahn.
CASEY SECOR: And was that pretty much a normal thing for you all that summer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
CASEY SECOR: And you said none of the babies could swim at that point?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No. That's why you see floaties on them.
CASEY SECOR: And that's 246. That's who?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's Merah.
CASEY SECOR: And who is this? This is 245.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's Nahtahn, Eli and my nephew.
CASEY SECOR: What nephew is that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That is -- but I can't think of his name off the top of my head.
CASEY SECOR: That's okay.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He was just here visiting me. He'd be mad at me. He probably is going to be mad at me.
CASEY SECOR: Was this -- was your house a gathering place for lots of family around this time?
CASEY SECOR: And were the babies part of the reason why people wanted to come around?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, we was -- I mean, even before, you know, they moved away. Like I said, they were at the house every weekend. So, yeah. It was always me and a bunch of kids.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir. And before that, before the summer they lived with you, they would spend time there sometimes?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: His name was Blake, by the way.
CASEY SECOR: Blake.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Sorry, Bud.
CASEY SECOR: The babies would spend time at your house before they actually lived there sometimes, right? When they lived in Mississippi.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I mean, when Timmy was in Mississippi State, they were at our house every weekend.
CASEY SECOR: Let me show you -- this is 332. Tell us, is that one of those times?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
CASEY SECOR: And who's in that picture?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's Eli, Merah, me and Gabriel. No. That isn't Gabriel, is it? No. That's Nahtahn and Amber.
CASEY SECOR: Is that at your house in Mississippi?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
CASEY SECOR: And is cooking out something that you all did regularly when you were there?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. My wife don't cook.
CASEY SECOR: This is 242. Who's in that picture?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's my wife, Nahtahn and me.
CASEY SECOR: May I approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may. A He had a balloon, yeah.
CASEY SECOR: Mr. Jones, I'm going to show you a -- I've got to get it marked. I'm sorry. (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 361 was marked for identification purposes).
CASEY SECOR: I'm going to show you what's been marked for identification purposes as Defendant's Exhibit 361. Is this a flash drive that you saw at the scene before this?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
CASEY SECOR: And there's a video on it of that --
CASEY SECOR: -- in the pool?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
CASEY SECOR: And I would offer Defendant's Exhibit 361 into evidence. I request permission to publish it.
RICK HUBBARD: I'm not sure what it is.
CASEY SECOR: It's the Court Exhibit, we gave it to you guys.
THE COURT: I've already viewed that one time. Isn't that the one minute video?
CASEY SECOR: I believe so. Yes, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: I don't know what it is, Judge. No objection.
THE COURT: It's similar to the pictures. So I'll admit it. 361. If I remember right, it's about a minute and 10 seconds. (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit number 361 was admitted into evidence). (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit number 361 was published to the jury).
CASEY SECOR: Tell us who was in that.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Merah, Nahtahn, me. I think I seen Jackie, here and Amber. I'm sure we were probably all out there.
CASEY SECOR: And tell us who Jackie --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Jackie's my daughter.
CASEY SECOR: Your step-daughter?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Correct. Yes.
CASEY SECOR: And tell us about Jackie's involvement in the babies' lives.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: She was, basically, a little second mom to them. You know, especially that summer, she was a mom to them. And they took a vacation and went up north and we went ahead and let Jackie watch them for the summer. That was the summer before she was going off to college and she said she would help keep an eye on them.
CASEY SECOR: So did she sort of volunteer for that job that summer?
CASEY SECOR: But she lived there, right?
CASEY SECOR: And these were -- you mean, she'd interact with them like she was babysitting or like they were --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Like they were her own kids. They would make comments -- when they were up north at my cousin Paul's house, Paul said, you'd think they were married.
CASEY SECOR: Where did they all sleep at your house that summer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I have three bedrooms. So we had plenty of room.
CASEY SECOR: Did they like sleep in --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: They'd all sleep with, you know, me and grandma.
CASEY SECOR: Would they sometimes sleep with Jackie, too?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Jackie. I mean, wherever you want to sleep.
CASEY SECOR: Right. Yes, sir.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Usually, we'd just try to run them down so they'd go to sleep. They were a bunch, you know --
CASEY SECOR: Yeah. Let me show you -- this is 251. Is that about around that summer, as well?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It is.
CASEY SECOR: 2012, maybe --
CASEY SECOR: -- at the pool. Is the pool still at your house?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No. I took it down.
CASEY SECOR: Why?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I just couldn't have it up.
CASEY SECOR: Because of the memories?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It was too much.
CASEY SECOR: I know this is brutal for you and I'm not trying to hurt you --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's right.
CASEY SECOR: -- but I want you to tell the jury what it's been like to lose the babies.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It's a living hell. I don't know how to explain it. It just changed my whole world, you know. I don't sleep, it's been really, been six years for me because, you know.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Excuse me.
CASEY SECOR: When -- you've told the jury already, when Tim was arrested and you got a call from Smith County Sheriff's Department, you went down there as quickly as you possibly could, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir. Yes.
CASEY SECOR: And I know the jury knows this and I'm not -- I don't want to revisit like blow by blow, but what was your purpose in going down there when you went -- when they asked you to come?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: To see what was going on. Why he was there with no children. You know, why we didn't know where they were.
CASEY SECOR: And did you want to find the babies desperately?
CASEY SECOR: Did you do everything that law enforcement asked of you?
CASEY SECOR: Did they even have to ask you to help?
CASEY SECOR: Your -- the main people that you interacted with there that you were trying to help was the Undersheriff, Undersheriff Patterson, right?
CASEY SECOR: And then, Sheriff Crumpton?
CASEY SECOR: And I think -- Special Agent Johnson, I think, right?
CASEY SECOR: And your decision to help them at that time -- because you wanted Timmy to tell them what happened, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. Yeah.
CASEY SECOR: And you stand by your decision to help them?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I do.
CASEY SECOR: Do you regret your decision to help them in any way?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No. I don't.
CASEY SECOR: And you're grateful to those in Mississippi for what they did?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: And for South Carolina. Mr. Creech, as well.
CASEY SECOR: And various people have come to you since that time and asked you for your help, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
CASEY SECOR: And that includes people from the Defense and from the Prosecution?
CASEY SECOR: Have you ever told anybody no?
CASEY SECOR: Did you talk to Dr. Frierson when he was evaluating Tim?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Anybody who wanted to talk to me.
CASEY SECOR: And you've talked to Mr. Hubbard from his office on a couple of occasions?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. I've met Mr. Hubbard a couple of times.
CASEY SECOR: Once here and once at your house, right?
CASEY SECOR: And your decision to cooperate with everybody that's asked for your help, do you regret that or do you stand by it?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I stand by it.
CASEY SECOR: How have you memorialized the babies, personally, on you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: For me?
CASEY SECOR: Yeah.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I just -- I think I feel more responsible than anyone. I mean, what are you asking, exactly?
CASEY SECOR: What did you do to memorialize the babies on you? On your back.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I got my back tattoo.
CASEY SECOR: Your Honor, I ask permission for Mr. Jones to be able to get down and show the jury the tattoos of the babies.
THE COURT: Okay.
CASEY SECOR: You can step down, Mr. Jones. (Whereupon, the Witness stepped off the witness stand and turned around to show his tattoos.)
CASEY SECOR: Here, this is Merah up here on the upper left, right?
CASEY SECOR: It looks like she's holding a puppy. Are these all from pictures that you had of the babies?
CASEY SECOR: And then, Elaine in the middle. And then, I think, Gabe just to the right of Elaine. Eli, over here and Nahtahn Nahtahn in the middle?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CASEY SECOR: And then, who's the left of Nahtahn?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My brother.
CASEY SECOR: Speak up just a little --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My brother, Larry.
CASEY SECOR: Larry. And is he the one that you told us died in the motorcycle accident?
CASEY SECOR: And then, to the right of Nahtahn, who's that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My sister, Elaine.
CASEY SECOR: She's the one that died of cancer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. Yes.
CASEY SECOR: And when did you first start getting these tattoos?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Just a few months after this happened.
CASEY SECOR: Have you gone back to have them worked on again and again?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I have. It's getting a little harder, but, yeah. I've still got more to do. It takes a little while.
CASEY SECOR: Mr. Jones, do you want Tim to be put to death?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No, sir. I don't. I love him so much. I don't want to hurt no more. I mean, I've hurt enough. I mean, this has destroyed my family.
CASEY SECOR: Do you struggle with guilt?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Every day.
CASEY SECOR: And I want you to know that I'm not suggesting --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I know.
CASEY SECOR: But it's out of guilt for the babies?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. And my son, for that matter. I mean, it's more for the babies, though.
CASEY SECOR: May I have just a moment, Your Honor?
CASEY SECOR: This is -- Mr. Jones, this is 252. I think the jury's seen this before.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir. This is me and Timmy when, the separation, that year.
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir.
CASEY SECOR: May I approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
CASEY SECOR: I'm just going to show you, Mr. Jones, what's been marked as 329 and just ask you if you recognize that. Is that a picture of the tattoos on your back that the jury just saw?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: You said it's 329?
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir. I'd offer it into evidence. I don't believe that there's any objection.
THE COURT: You have already more or less published it, but put it back up there for --
CASEY SECOR: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: -- the media. She is looking for the picture. Okay, she wanted a picture of it.
CASEY SECOR: I'm not sure how to get rid of the glare. I'm sorry.
THE COURT: That's all right. (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit number 329 was admitted into evidence). (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 330 through 335 were marked for identification only.)
CASEY SECOR: Thank you, Mr. Jones.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Sure.
CROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Hubbard:
RICK HUBBARD: Mr. Jones.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Mr. Hubbard.
RICK HUBBARD: We've talked a lot about the care and love you raised your son with, but you also mentioned there was a lot of chaos in your house.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
RICK HUBBARD: But I think you've said, over and over, you did your best to make sure your son knew, all the time, that you loved him.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I did.
RICK HUBBARD: You would even tell him you loved him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I did.
RICK HUBBARD: A lot of fathers --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I do.
RICK HUBBARD: A lot of fathers can't even look at their sons and say that, but you always did?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I still do.
RICK HUBBARD: And when he was growing up, you always made sure he had clothes on his back?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: He had food to eat?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: You always made sure he went to school?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: You took care of -- whatever's going on in your life, you got him there on time?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: And made sure he did well and he did do well?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I didn't have to help him with that part. He did that--
RICK HUBBARD: -- he had a gift?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He did. He does or he did.
RICK HUBBARD: And although you had work and he had school, you spent as much time as you could with him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: A little more, but yeah, I did.
RICK HUBBARD: You were involved in any activities that he was involved in?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I tried. Some things, I couldn't keep up with.
RICK HUBBARD: Special events, you made your best effort to be there?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I did.
RICK HUBBARD: So for whatever things were going on in that world, Tim Jones, Jr., had a father that loved him and he knew it?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That was always a problem with Timmy. He always didn't know it. He didn't think I loved him. Still, I don't even know if this is going to prove it to him, but, yes. I mean, yeah. He had love.
RICK HUBBARD: He didn't always reciprocate that love with you, did he?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, again, he just -- it just seemed like he didn't believe me when he got a little older. I mean, when he was younger, of course, all five, six, seven year old kids love you to death. But as he got older, he just thought that I didn't love him.
RICK HUBBARD: This issue with your ex-wife, Cindy, who we just saw pictures of.
RICK HUBBARD: Did you ever tell your son when he was a little child that his mama abandoned him?
RICK HUBBARD: Did you ever say, your mama doesn't love you?
RICK HUBBARD: That would be cruel, wouldn't it?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It would be.
RICK HUBBARD: Did you assure him that you weren't going anywhere?
RICK HUBBARD: Did you let him know his mom was sick?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I did when he was older. I mean, I told him. Yeah, your mom's--
RICK HUBBARD: -- you didn't say anything bad about her?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No, no.
RICK HUBBARD: As he got older, he started to challenge you more?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: A teenager.
RICK HUBBARD: And you've described -- I think you testified last time, sometimes, dealing with him, when he got older, was like walking on eggshells?
RICK HUBBARD: Any little thing could set him off?
RICK HUBBARD: He'd go to his room or he'd walk away and he wouldn't talk to you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Sometimes. Yes.
RICK HUBBARD: He'd punish you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Pardon?
RICK HUBBARD: He'd punish you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I guess, I mean, I thought, yeah.
RICK HUBBARD: Your babies, grand-babies --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
RICK HUBBARD: -- you've said over and over how much they meant to you.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: More than anything.
RICK HUBBARD: I don't think anybody is going to question that.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Pardon?
RICK HUBBARD: I don't think anybody is going to question that.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Okay. I hope not.
RICK HUBBARD: You drove all the way from your home down in Smith County to help Marty Patterson and those other officers find your babies?
RICK HUBBARD: And I believe you've told us, when you found out your son and his kids were missing, you first thought was, Timmy just drove them off a cliff.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, that was later. My initial thought was that he'd gotten back together with Amber and it's like, that's fine. I mean, that's what I really thought, but, then, when I realized what was going on, yes. When I talked to Amber and that wasn't the case, I just thought that he lost it.
RICK HUBBARD: You last saw them Christmas Eve of 2012?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: And that was the evening your son, Tim, Jr., --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. 2014.
RICK HUBBARD: It was 2012, wasn't it?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Oh, yeah.
RICK HUBBARD: I'm bad with dates, too. I've got to write them down. December of 2012, Christmas Eve.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
RICK HUBBARD: He got upset with Jackie, your daughter, step-daughter.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It was all weekend.
RICK HUBBARD: I think you said he was ticked off at Linda at that time.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's the way I took it. He was just upset because he wasn't with his wife and family. I mean, he was with his kids, but he missed Amber and he didn't have her, you know. And I can understand because I went through a divorce. So I know how he felt.
RICK HUBBARD: So he was -- I think you told us he was picking on Jackie and he even started picking on Julie and got her involved in it.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, he didn't try to pick on Julie. But, yeah, he was just nitpicking at Jackie. Just, you know, bugging her and pestering her, you know.
RICK HUBBARD: And you intervened?
RICK HUBBARD: And he got upset?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He did.
RICK HUBBARD: He always got upset if it looked like you were taking someone else's side other than his?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I mean, I guess, you could look at it that way. Yeah.
RICK HUBBARD: Going all the way back when you got remarried. You married -- is it Carolyn?
RICK HUBBARD: He got upset as a child --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He was jealous.
RICK HUBBARD: -- that you picked a woman over him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's the way he took it. Yes.
RICK HUBBARD: And that stayed with him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I believe.
RICK HUBBARD: And when you married Julie, it's like, even though he's older -- now, he helped you find Julie, but there were times --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. That's what it was.
RICK HUBBARD: On December of 2012, he packed his kids up and came back to South Carolina?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: It was a year and eight months before you all talked to one another? All of 2013 --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. Whatever it is, that was--
RICK HUBBARD: -- all of 2013, there wasn't a single phone call?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, but I knew what was going on. He was talking to my parents.
RICK HUBBARD: And all the way into August of 2014, finally, you picked up the phone and you made contact?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Because of my father.
RICK HUBBARD: And you made plans to see him and the kids on Labor Day?
RICK HUBBARD: And, obviously, your son killed your babies.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He did.
RICK HUBBARD: If there was something going on in his life, he knew he could always make sure those babies could stay with you?
RICK HUBBARD: They loved you and they were happy being with you?
RICK HUBBARD: He knew that. You made sure he knew that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I knew that. My family knows that. I just don't know if Timmy knew that. I mean, again, he thought that I chose everyone over him. You know, over him and his children. That's the way he just sort of looked at it. That's the way I looked at it, anyway.
RICK HUBBARD: And this one night in August of 2014, he made a choice to take away all those babies from everybody, including you.
RICK HUBBARD: To save himself?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I don't know about that. I mean, to me, as I said before he's a brilliant young man. And he snapped. I don't know what caused it, but he snapped.
RICK HUBBARD: The bottom line is, the grief you feel --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
RICK HUBBARD: -- was inflicted by your son.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's right.
RICK HUBBARD: And he's the reason why your babies aren't here.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I blame myself more than him.
RICK HUBBARD: I know you do, but you know, he's the one that killed those babies.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I know, if I had been there, maybe, this wouldn't have happened.
RICK HUBBARD: I think a lot of people say that, but he didn't want you there.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He actually did want me there, you know. So I'm not sure --
RICK HUBBARD: Thank you.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. Secor:
CASEY SECOR: Did the Solicitor's Office ever reach out to you as being a victim in this case?
RICK HUBBARD: Your Honor, I'm going --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: -- to object. I'm going to object. We've already gone through this.
THE COURT: I thought his testimony was the Solicitors office had been to his house.
CASEY SECOR: That's different than being reached out to as a victim by the Victim's Advocate.
THE COURT: The Solicitor himself went to his house. I mean, you can ask the question. Go ahead, recross. Go ahead.
CASEY SECOR: Did the Solicitor's Office reach out to you as a victim in this case?
CASEY SECOR: Did they reach out to you to gather information about your family?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I think so. Yeah. I mean, we talked about what was happening.
CASEY SECOR: Did you help them?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I told them -- I did, you know, everything they asked. I told them.
CASEY SECOR: You answered every question that they had?
CASEY SECOR: Do you love Tim?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: More than anything.
THE COURT: Solicitor.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Hubbard:
RICK HUBBARD: Mr. Jones, did I ever, at any time, or anybody in my office treat you in any kind of -- way--
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: -- no, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: You came to my office and you allowed me to come into your home?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
RICK HUBBARD: Thank you.
THE COURT: You can step down. (Whereupon, the witness stepped down from the witness stand).
THE COURT: You all haven't been here for quite an hour, but we've been here a little more than that. We're going to take a break. Step in the jury room. We'll be right back in. It shouldn't be a very long break.
(Whereupon, the jury was excused from the courtroom.)