10.Timothy Jones, Sr. — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross (Recall) (Part 2)
468 linesMR. SECOR: Yes, sir. The Defense calls Timothy Jones, Sr.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR., being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Have a seat, please, sir. Once you're seated, state your full name, spelling your last.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Timothy Ray Jones. J-O-N-E-S.
MR. SECOR: May I approach the witness?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. SECOR: Your Honor, may I approach the witness?
THE COURT: You may.
DIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. Secor:
MR. SECOR: Mr. Jones, I'm going to show you some pictures that I want to show the jury and you just tell me if you recognize. And these ones -- these first few are already in evidence. That's Defense Exhibit 252, 251, 140 and 142. And then, these are the ones that I would offer, as well. These have been marked for identification purposes as 326, 327, 328, 332, 236, 238, 242, 247, 245 and 246. Now, these all are pictures that you recognize as family photos?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: I'd just like to show some of these pictures, that list that I read off, Your Honor, into evidence. The State has seen the photographs.
MR. HUBBARD: No objection.
THE COURT: All right. So I don't know all of the numbers. I didn't write then down but those that you just showed him, will be admitted without objection and I'll rule on them on a number by number basis.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And, Mr. Jones, if you will, just sort of help me sort of just tell the jury who these people are and what period of time that the picture was taken and what was going on in your lives at that point. Is that all right with you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I'll do my best.
MR. SECOR: This is 326. Tell us, who's that (indicating)?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's my ex-wife, Cindy Granado, Timmy's mother.
MR. SECOR: All right. And do you remember about when that picture would have been taken?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That was pretty much when I first met her. So I was 15 or 16, 16.
MR. SECOR: You're saying that's how old you were, then?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I was 16 and she was 16.
MR. SECOR: And she was 16, as well? And this next picture is 327. Is that her, as well?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. That's -- I believe that's about 18.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And where did you all meet?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: A friend of mine introduced me in Raleigh, Illinois.
MR. SECOR: How long did you know each other before you all got pregnant with Tim?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: A year and a half, maybe. A year.
MR. SECOR: And the jury's seen this picture. I believe this is 140. And who's that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's me and Timmy when he was born.
MR. SECOR: Which was when?
MR. SECOR: 1981?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
MR. SECOR: And where did you all -- where were you living at that point?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: We were staying in my mother's basement.
MR. SECOR: In?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Oak Grove, Illinois, Auburn Trail, I believe.
MR. SECOR: And how about that one?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It's Cindy and Timmy. There again, 19 or 18. You know, around 18 and a half, 19.
MR. SECOR: And I think we talked to the jury before, but there was changes that you saw in Cindy before -- while she was pregnant with Tim, Jr., and after he was born?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I mean, she was just -- she'd just do crazy things like cut the clothes and then sit in the corner. She just seemed like she was losing her mind.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir. And we don't have to go back into it again, but she eventually, I think, left you and Tim, Jr., right?
MR. SECOR: Or, I guess, she left with Tim, Jr., for a while?
MR. SECOR: But did you end up getting custody of Tim?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: In the long run, yes.
MR. SECOR: And who then becomes his sort of family after Cynthia leaves?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My mother and father and sisters.
MR. SECOR: And who are they again?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Elaine and Roberta and Larry.
MR. SECOR: Okay.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Larry was like his little brother.
MR. SECOR: And what were you doing for work during that period of time when Tim was --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I was a tool and knife maker.
MR. SECOR: Say again?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Tool and knife maker.
MR. SECOR: Okay. In Illinois?
MR. SECOR: This is 142. Where's that taken?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I want to say, this is Itasca. Itasca, Illinois and I was working for Illinois Tool Works in that.
MR. SECOR: Were you living with your mom and Larry?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No. This was -- it was -- I want to say, it was me and Timmy.
MR. SECOR: Just the two of you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I believe so.
MR. SECOR: And how about this, this is 328. What were you all doing there?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: We were going to hit golf balls. I'm trying to remember exactly where it was at. I think it was over by -- I'm not sure. I can't tell, but I used to go and I'd do, and we'd hit golf balls. Me and Timmy.
MR. SECOR: What other kind of stuff -- didn't you go bowling, too?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I'd do, you know, whatever he wanted to do. Bowling, golf, football, baseball. You know, he turned eventually liking wrestling and gymnastics more.
MR. SECOR: And this is a time in his life when you all spent significant time together?
MR. SECOR: And who's that? That's 238.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: This is the--
MR. SECOR: -- is that just a school picture?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I believe so. I want to say, East Middle School and -- yeah. Timmy's in middle school. Not middle school--
MR. SECOR: -- and how -- was he interested in school back in those days?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Oh, yeah. He loved school and he excelled. He was a good kid. I mean --
MR. SECOR: What kind of stuff did he like the most in school?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Math.
MR. SECOR: Is that why you ended up getting him a computer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
THE COURT: I'm going to name these off real quick. 326, 327 and 328 are in without objection. I believe, 141 and 42 are already in. If not, they're in now. And then, 236 and 238 have been discussed and they're in, also. That's the pictures we just saw.
COURT REPORTER: I've got exactly what you have, but I do have 142 in, but I'm not sure about 140. I'll have to check on that.
THE COURT: But 140 is now in.
COURT REPORTER: But now is in. Okay. Yes, sir. That's right.
THE COURT: Okay.
COURT REPORTER: Thank you.
(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit numbers 140, 141, 142, 236, 238, 326, 327 and 328 were admitted into evidence)
COURT REPORTER: .
MR. SECOR: Mr. Jones, tell us about what your grandchildren, Merah, Eli, Nahtahn, Gabe and Elaine meant to you. I know -- I don't think you and Julie ever had the chance to meet Elaine.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Unfortunately, we didn't.
MR. SECOR: But tell us -- tell the jury about what -- you called them the babies, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. SECOR: What did the babies mean to you and your family's life?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: They meant everything to me. I mean, they were -- I was--
MR. SECOR: -- say again?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I was Papa.
MR. SECOR: That's what they called you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. SECOR: And what did they call Julie, your wife?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: They called her Grandma.
MR. SECOR: The summer of 2012, where did they live?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: You're talking about when they were -- Timmy and them were splitting up?
MR. SECOR: Yeah. The summer of 2012, they lived with you in Mississippi, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know it was that far away, but, yeah.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And what did they -- what was one of the things that you made at your house for them that summer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I made all kinds of things for them. I mean, I built a pool for them, you know, because none of them knew how to swim. So I wanted to teach them how to swim. So we put them in a pool. As a matter of fact, my son helped me.
MR. SECOR: I'm going to show you some pictures that, I think, are from around that time. I was just wondering if you could tell us who's in the picture.
MR. SECOR: That's 247, Your Honor.
(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 247 was admitted into evidence)
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's me and Nahtahn.
MR. SECOR: And was that pretty much a normal thing for you all that summer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. SECOR: And you said none of the babies could swim at that point?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No. That's why you see floaties on them.
MR. SECOR: And that's 246. That's who?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's Merah.
MR. SECOR: And who is this? This is 245.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's Nahtahn, Eli and my nephew.
MR. SECOR: What nephew is that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That is -- but I can't think of his name off the top of my head.
MR. SECOR: That's okay.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He was just here visiting me. He'd be mad at me. He probably is going to be mad at me.
MR. SECOR: Was this -- was your house a gathering place for lots of family around this time?
MR. SECOR: And were the babies part of the reason why people wanted to come around?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, we was -- I mean, even before, you know, they moved away. Like I said, they were at the house every weekend. So, yeah. It was always me and a bunch of kids.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir. And before that, before the summer they lived with you, they would spend time there sometimes?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: His name was Blake, by the way.
MR. SECOR: Blake.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Sorry, Bud.
MR. SECOR: The babies would spend time at your house before they actually lived there sometimes, right? When they lived in Mississippi.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I mean, when Timmy was in Mississippi State, they were at our house every weekend.
MR. SECOR: Let me show you -- this is 332. Tell us, is that one of those times?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: And who's in that picture?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's Eli, Merah, me and Gabriel. No. That isn't Gabriel, is it? No. That's Nahtahn and Amber.
MR. SECOR: Is that at your house in Mississippi?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: And is cooking out something that you all did regularly when you were there?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. My wife don't cook.
MR. SECOR: This is 242. Who's in that picture?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's my wife, Nahtahn and me.
MR. SECOR: May I approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may. A He had a balloon, yeah.
MR. SECOR: Mr. Jones, I'm going to show you a -- I've got to get it marked. I'm sorry.
(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 361 was marked for identification purposes)
MR. SECOR: I'm going to show you what's been marked for identification purposes as Defendant's Exhibit 361. Is this a flash drive that you saw at the scene before this?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: And there's a video on it of that --
MR. SECOR: -- in the pool?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: And I would offer Defendant's Exhibit 361 into evidence. I request permission to publish it.
MR. HUBBARD: I'm not sure what it is.
MR. SECOR: It's the Court Exhibit, we gave it to you guys.
THE COURT: I've already viewed that one time. Isn't that the one minute video?
MR. SECOR: I believe so. Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: I don't know what it is, Judge. No objection.
THE COURT: It's similar to the pictures. So I'll admit it. 361. If I remember right, it's about a minute and 10 seconds.
(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit number 361 was admitted into evidence)
(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit number 361 was published to the jury)
MR. SECOR: Tell us who was in that.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Merah, Nahtahn, me. I think I seen Jackie, here and Amber. I'm sure we were probably all out there.
MR. SECOR: And tell us who Jackie --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Jackie's my daughter.
MR. SECOR: Your step-daughter?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Correct. Yes.
MR. SECOR: And tell us about Jackie's involvement in the babies' lives.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: She was, basically, a little second mom to them. You know, especially that summer, she was a mom to them. And they took a vacation and went up north and we went ahead and let Jackie watch them for the summer. That was the summer before she was going off to college and she said she would help keep an eye on them.
MR. SECOR: So did she sort of volunteer for that job that summer?
MR. SECOR: But she lived there, right?
MR. SECOR: And these were -- you mean, she'd interact with them like she was babysitting or like they were --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Like they were her own kids. They would make comments -- when they were up north at my cousin Paul's house, Paul said, you'd think they were married.
MR. SECOR: Where did they all sleep at your house that summer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I have three bedrooms. So we had plenty of room.
MR. SECOR: Did they like sleep in --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: They'd all sleep with, you know, me and grandma.
MR. SECOR: Would they sometimes sleep with Jackie, too?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Jackie. I mean, wherever you want to sleep.
MR. SECOR: Right. Yes, sir.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Usually, we'd just try to run them down so they'd go to sleep. They were a bunch, you know --
MR. SECOR: Yeah. Let me show you -- this is 251. Is that about around that summer, as well?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It is.
MR. SECOR: 2012, maybe --
MR. SECOR: -- at the pool. Is the pool still at your house?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No. I took it down.
MR. SECOR: Why?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I just couldn't have it up.
MR. SECOR: Because of the memories?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It was too much.
MR. SECOR: I know this is brutal for you and I'm not trying to hurt you --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's right.
MR. SECOR: -- but I want you to tell the jury what it's been like to lose the babies.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It's a living hell. I don't know how to explain it. It just changed my whole world, you know. I don't sleep, it's been really, been six years for me because, you know.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Excuse me.
MR. SECOR: When -- you've told the jury already, when Tim was arrested and you got a call from Smith County Sheriff's Department, you went down there as quickly as you possibly could, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir. Yes.
MR. SECOR: And I know the jury knows this and I'm not -- I don't want to revisit like blow by blow, but what was your purpose in going down there when you went -- when they asked you to come?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: To see what was going on. Why he was there with no children. You know, why we didn't know where they were.
MR. SECOR: And did you want to find the babies desperately?
MR. SECOR: Did you do everything that law enforcement asked of you?
MR. SECOR: Did they even have to ask you to help?
MR. SECOR: Your -- the main people that you interacted with there that you were trying to help was the Undersheriff, Undersheriff Patterson, right?
MR. SECOR: And then, Sheriff Crumpton?
MR. SECOR: And I think -- Special Agent Johnson, I think, right?
MR. SECOR: And your decision to help them at that time -- because you wanted Timmy to tell them what happened, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. Yeah.
MR. SECOR: And you stand by your decision to help them?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I do.
MR. SECOR: Do you regret your decision to help them in any way?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No. I don't.
MR. SECOR: And you're grateful to those in Mississippi for what they did?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: And for South Carolina. Mr. Creech, as well.
MR. SECOR: And various people have come to you since that time and asked you for your help, right?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. SECOR: And that includes people from the Defense and from the Prosecution?
MR. SECOR: Have you ever told anybody no?
MR. SECOR: Did you talk to Dr. Frierson when he was evaluating Tim?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Anybody who wanted to talk to me.
MR. SECOR: And you've talked to Mr. Hubbard from his office on a couple of occasions?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. I've met Mr. Hubbard a couple of times.
MR. SECOR: Once here and once at your house, right?
MR. SECOR: And your decision to cooperate with everybody that's asked for your help, do you regret that or do you stand by it?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I stand by it.
MR. SECOR: How have you memorialized the babies, personally, on you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: For me?
MR. SECOR: Yeah.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I just -- I think I feel more responsible than anyone. I mean, what are you asking, exactly?
MR. SECOR: What did you do to memorialize the babies on you? On your back.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I got my back tattoo.
MR. SECOR: Your Honor, I ask permission for Mr. Jones to be able to get down and show the jury the tattoos of the babies.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. SECOR: You can step down, Mr. Jones.
(Whereupon, the Witness stepped off the witness stand and turned around to show his tattoos.)
MR. SECOR: Here, this is Merah up here on the upper left, right?
MR. SECOR: It looks like she's holding a puppy. Are these all from pictures that you had of the babies?
MR. SECOR: And then, Elaine in the middle. And then, I think, Gabe just to the right of Elaine. Eli, over here and Nahtahn Nahtahn in the middle?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
MR. SECOR: And then, who's the left of Nahtahn?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My brother.
MR. SECOR: Speak up just a little --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My brother, Larry.
MR. SECOR: Larry. And is he the one that you told us died in the motorcycle accident?
MR. SECOR: And then, to the right of Nahtahn, who's that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: My sister, Elaine.
MR. SECOR: She's the one that died of cancer?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. Yes.
MR. SECOR: And when did you first start getting these tattoos?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Just a few months after this happened.
MR. SECOR: Have you gone back to have them worked on again and again?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I have. It's getting a little harder, but, yeah. I've still got more to do. It takes a little while.
MR. SECOR: Mr. Jones, do you want Tim to be put to death?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No, sir. I don't. I love him so much. I don't want to hurt no more. I mean, I've hurt enough. I mean, this has destroyed my family.
MR. SECOR: Do you struggle with guilt?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Every day.
MR. SECOR: And I want you to know that I'm not suggesting --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I know.
MR. SECOR: But it's out of guilt for the babies?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes. And my son, for that matter. I mean, it's more for the babies, though.
MR. SECOR: May I have just a moment, Your Honor?
MR. SECOR: This is -- Mr. Jones, this is 252. I think the jury's seen this before.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir. This is me and Timmy when, the separation, that year.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: May I approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. SECOR: I'm just going to show you, Mr. Jones, what's been marked as 329 and just ask you if you recognize that. Is that a picture of the tattoos on your back that the jury just saw?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: You said it's 329?
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir. I'd offer it into evidence. I don't believe that there's any objection.
THE COURT: You have already more or less published it, but put it back up there for --
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: -- the media. She is looking for the picture. Okay, she wanted a picture of it.
MR. SECOR: I'm not sure how to get rid of the glare. I'm sorry.
THE COURT: That's all right.
(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit number 329 was admitted into evidence)
(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 330 through 335 were marked for identification only.)
MR. SECOR: Thank you, Mr. Jones.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Sure.
CROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Hubbard:
MR. HUBBARD: Mr. Jones.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Mr. Hubbard.
MR. HUBBARD: We've talked a lot about the care and love you raised your son with, but you also mentioned there was a lot of chaos in your house.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. HUBBARD: But I think you've said, over and over, you did your best to make sure your son knew, all the time, that you loved him.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I did.
MR. HUBBARD: You would even tell him you loved him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I did.
MR. HUBBARD: A lot of fathers --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: A lot of fathers can't even look at their sons and say that, but you always did?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I still do.
MR. HUBBARD: And when he was growing up, you always made sure he had clothes on his back?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: He had food to eat?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: You always made sure he went to school?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: You took care of -- whatever's going on in your life, you got him there on time?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: And made sure he did well and he did do well?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I didn't have to help him with that part. He did that--
MR. HUBBARD: -- he had a gift?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He did. He does or he did.
MR. HUBBARD: And although you had work and he had school, you spent as much time as you could with him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: A little more, but yeah, I did.
MR. HUBBARD: You were involved in any activities that he was involved in?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I tried. Some things, I couldn't keep up with.
MR. HUBBARD: Special events, you made your best effort to be there?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I did.
MR. HUBBARD: So for whatever things were going on in that world, Tim Jones, Jr., had a father that loved him and he knew it?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That was always a problem with Timmy. He always didn't know it. He didn't think I loved him. Still, I don't even know if this is going to prove it to him, but, yes. I mean, yeah. He had love.
MR. HUBBARD: He didn't always reciprocate that love with you, did he?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, again, he just -- it just seemed like he didn't believe me when he got a little older. I mean, when he was younger, of course, all five, six, seven year old kids love you to death. But as he got older, he just thought that I didn't love him.
MR. HUBBARD: This issue with your ex-wife, Cindy, who we just saw pictures of.
MR. HUBBARD: Did you ever tell your son when he was a little child that his mama abandoned him?
MR. HUBBARD: Did you ever say, your mama doesn't love you?
MR. HUBBARD: That would be cruel, wouldn't it?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It would be.
MR. HUBBARD: Did you assure him that you weren't going anywhere?
MR. HUBBARD: Did you let him know his mom was sick?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I did when he was older. I mean, I told him. Yeah, your mom's--
MR. HUBBARD: -- you didn't say anything bad about her?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No, no.
MR. HUBBARD: As he got older, he started to challenge you more?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: A teenager.
MR. HUBBARD: And you've described -- I think you testified last time, sometimes, dealing with him, when he got older, was like walking on eggshells?
MR. HUBBARD: Any little thing could set him off?
MR. HUBBARD: He'd go to his room or he'd walk away and he wouldn't talk to you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Sometimes. Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: He'd punish you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Pardon?
MR. HUBBARD: He'd punish you?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I guess, I mean, I thought, yeah.
MR. HUBBARD: Your babies, grand-babies --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. HUBBARD: -- you've said over and over how much they meant to you.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: More than anything.
MR. HUBBARD: I don't think anybody is going to question that.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Pardon?
MR. HUBBARD: I don't think anybody is going to question that.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Okay. I hope not.
MR. HUBBARD: You drove all the way from your home down in Smith County to help Marty Patterson and those other officers find your babies?
MR. HUBBARD: And I believe you've told us, when you found out your son and his kids were missing, you first thought was, Timmy just drove them off a cliff.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, that was later. My initial thought was that he'd gotten back together with Amber and it's like, that's fine. I mean, that's what I really thought, but, then, when I realized what was going on, yes. When I talked to Amber and that wasn't the case, I just thought that he lost it.
MR. HUBBARD: You last saw them Christmas Eve of 2012?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: And that was the evening your son, Tim, Jr., --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. 2014.
MR. HUBBARD: It was 2012, wasn't it?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Oh, yeah.
MR. HUBBARD: I'm bad with dates, too. I've got to write them down. December of 2012, Christmas Eve.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. HUBBARD: He got upset with Jackie, your daughter, step-daughter.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: It was all weekend.
MR. HUBBARD: I think you said he was ticked off at Linda at that time.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's the way I took it. He was just upset because he wasn't with his wife and family. I mean, he was with his kids, but he missed Amber and he didn't have her, you know. And I can understand because I went through a divorce. So I know how he felt.
MR. HUBBARD: So he was -- I think you told us he was picking on Jackie and he even started picking on Julie and got her involved in it.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, he didn't try to pick on Julie. But, yeah, he was just nitpicking at Jackie. Just, you know, bugging her and pestering her, you know.
MR. HUBBARD: And you intervened?
MR. HUBBARD: And he got upset?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He did.
MR. HUBBARD: He always got upset if it looked like you were taking someone else's side other than his?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I mean, I guess, you could look at it that way. Yeah.
MR. HUBBARD: Going all the way back when you got remarried. You married -- is it Carolyn?
MR. HUBBARD: He got upset as a child --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He was jealous.
MR. HUBBARD: -- that you picked a woman over him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's the way he took it. Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: And that stayed with him?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. I believe.
MR. HUBBARD: And when you married Julie, it's like, even though he's older -- now, he helped you find Julie, but there were times --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. That's what it was.
MR. HUBBARD: On December of 2012, he packed his kids up and came back to South Carolina?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: It was a year and eight months before you all talked to one another? All of 2013 --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah. Whatever it is, that was--
MR. HUBBARD: -- all of 2013, there wasn't a single phone call?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, but I knew what was going on. He was talking to my parents.
MR. HUBBARD: And all the way into August of 2014, finally, you picked up the phone and you made contact?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Because of my father.
MR. HUBBARD: And you made plans to see him and the kids on Labor Day?
MR. HUBBARD: And, obviously, your son killed your babies.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He did.
MR. HUBBARD: If there was something going on in his life, he knew he could always make sure those babies could stay with you?
MR. HUBBARD: They loved you and they were happy being with you?
MR. HUBBARD: He knew that. You made sure he knew that?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Well, I knew that. My family knows that. I just don't know if Timmy knew that. I mean, again, he thought that I chose everyone over him. You know, over him and his children. That's the way he just sort of looked at it. That's the way I looked at it, anyway.
MR. HUBBARD: And this one night in August of 2014, he made a choice to take away all those babies from everybody, including you.
MR. HUBBARD: To save himself?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I don't know about that. I mean, to me, as I said before he's a brilliant young man. And he snapped. I don't know what caused it, but he snapped.
MR. HUBBARD: The bottom line is, the grief you feel --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yeah.
MR. HUBBARD: -- was inflicted by your son.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: That's right.
MR. HUBBARD: And he's the reason why your babies aren't here.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I blame myself more than him.
MR. HUBBARD: I know you do, but you know, he's the one that killed those babies.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I know, if I had been there, maybe, this wouldn't have happened.
MR. HUBBARD: I think a lot of people say that, but he didn't want you there.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: He actually did want me there, you know. So I'm not sure --
MR. HUBBARD: Thank you.
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. Secor:
MR. SECOR: Did the Solicitor's Office ever reach out to you as being a victim in this case?
MR. HUBBARD: Your Honor, I'm going --
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: No, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: -- to object. I'm going to object. We've already gone through this.
THE COURT: I thought his testimony was the Solicitors office had been to his house.
MR. SECOR: That's different than being reached out to as a victim by the Victim's Advocate.
THE COURT: The Solicitor himself went to his house. I mean, you can ask the question. Go ahead, recross. Go ahead.
MR. SECOR: Did the Solicitor's Office reach out to you as a victim in this case?
MR. SECOR: Did they reach out to you to gather information about your family?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I think so. Yeah. I mean, we talked about what was happening.
MR. SECOR: Did you help them?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: I told them -- I did, you know, everything they asked. I told them.
MR. SECOR: You answered every question that they had?
MR. SECOR: Do you love Tim?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: More than anything.
THE COURT: Solicitor.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Hubbard:
MR. HUBBARD: Mr. Jones, did I ever, at any time, or anybody in my office treat you in any kind of -- way--
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: -- no, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: You came to my office and you allowed me to come into your home?
TIMOTHY JONES, SR.: Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: Thank you.
THE COURT: You can step down.
(Whereupon, the witness stepped down from the witness stand)
THE COURT: You all haven't been here for quite an hour, but we've been here a little more than that. We're going to take a break. Step in the jury room. We'll be right back in. It shouldn't be a very long break.
(Whereupon, the jury was excused from the courtroom.)