9.Marty Patterson — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross
801 linesMARTY PATTERSON, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Once you're seated, state your full name spelling your last.
MARTY PATTERSON: Marty Patterson, P-a-t-t-e-r-s-o-n.
COURT REPORTER: And you spell your first name with a Y?
MARTY PATTERSON: M-a-r-t-y.
DIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. Hubbard:
MR. HUBBARD: Officer Patterson, where are you currently working?
MARTY PATTERSON: I'm currently retired.
MR. HUBBARD: Where did you retire from?
MARTY PATTERSON: I retired as Undersheriff from Smith County Sheriff's Department in Raleigh, Mississippi.
MR. HUBBARD: After how many years of law enforcement?
MARTY PATTERSON: Thirty-eight years.
MR. HUBBARD: How much of that time was with Smith County?
MARTY PATTERSON: Twenty-three years.
MR. HUBBARD: Let me ask you this. We keep hearing the term Undersheriff. We don't have that in South Carolina. Is that kind of like a chief deputy?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: The number two guy in the Sheriff's Department?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, are you currently running for office?
MARTY PATTERSON: I am. I'm running for sheriff.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, the current sheriff, what's his name?
MARTY PATTERSON: Charlie Crumpton. He's retiring.
MR. HUBBARD: He's retiring. You're not running against him?
MARTY PATTERSON: No, most definitely not.
MR. HUBBARD: You all worked together for many, many years?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: I just want to clarify this. Now, I want to ask you to go on back to November -- I mean, September 6th -- I don't even know my dates now. September 6th, 2014. Do you remember that day?
MARTY PATTERSON: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: Was the Sheriff in town that day?
MARTY PATTERSON: He was not.
MR. HUBBARD: What was the policy when the Sheriff was out of town, who would run the department?
MARTY PATTERSON: When the Sheriff was out of town I would step up into the Sheriff's shoes and be in charge of the department.
MR. HUBBARD: We heard earlier today about the roadblock that was set up, or a road stop checkpoint?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: What was the process of Smith County for setting up checkpoints?
MARTY PATTERSON: Our policy for setting up safety checkpoints is that, first of all, you have to have a safe place in order to stop the vehicles. You have to have your blue lights on. You have to have two or more officers at that checkpoint. You must check every vehicle that comes through that checkpoint. You must have your safety clothing on, and what we used was reflective vests. And you must first have -- get permission before any of that takes place.
MR. HUBBARD: Who do they -- who do the officers typically get permission from?
MARTY PATTERSON: Particularly the Sheriff or myself.
MR. HUBBARD: On this particular day, since the Sheriff was out, did you give approval for that safety checkpoint?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, I did.
MR. HUBBARD: And do you remember what road that was on?
MARTY PATTERSON: That was Highway 18, just east of Raleigh, about the Raleigh City limits in Raleigh, Mississippi.
MR. HUBBARD: How would you describe that particular Highway 18. That stretch of road?
MARTY PATTERSON: It's more or less a straight stretch of road, even. At the particular checkpoint there was a place that you could pull the vehicles off to the side and be safe, and it was -- it was a good place to set up a checkpoint --
MR. HUBBARD: I'm going to show you --
MARTY PATTERSON: -- as far as safety.
MR. HUBBARD: -- State's 59 and 60. Does that look like where -- where about that checkpoint was?
MARTY PATTERSON: It does.
MR. HUBBARD: Your Honor, I offer these into evidence.
THE COURT: That's 59 and 60?
MR. HUBBARD: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Any objection to 59 and 60?
MR. SECOR: I'm sorry?
THE COURT: 59 and 60. The two photographs of kind of the area where the checkpoint was done?
MR. SECOR: Yeah, no objection except from the previous objection from previous hearings.
THE COURT: Very well, except the previous hearing objection made.
(Whereupon, State's Exhibit numbers 59 and 60 were admitted into evidence.)
MR. HUBBARD: I'm slowly learning how to use this thing.
MR. HUBBARD: This sign, welcome sign, what, is Raleigh the main town in Smith County?
MARTY PATTERSON: Raleigh is the County Seat of Smith County, yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Is that where the Sheriff's Office is?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: I'll show you State's 60. Is that the paved portion where you pull cars off of the side of the road?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: That evening who asked permission to set up the checkpoint, the safety checkpoint?
MARTY PATTERSON: Officer Charles Johnson contacted me on my cell phone and asked permission to set up, he and Officer Wayne Thompson, and they were granted permission to do that.
MR. HUBBARD: Do you know about what time that was?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was about 10 or 15 minutes prior to 8:00 o'clock in the afternoon.
MR. HUBBARD: And at some point you get a second phone call?
MARTY PATTERSON: I did.
MR. HUBBARD: And who was that through?
MARTY PATTERSON: It came through dispatch from Charles Johnson.
MR. HUBBARD: What was the request?
MARTY PATTERSON: They requested that can I come to the area where they had the safety checkpoint set up, that they believe they may have a meth lab.
MR. HUBBARD: When you got there, about what time are we talking now?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was probably -- probably around a little after 8:00. It took me approximately two to three minutes to get there.
MR. HUBBARD: And was it light or dark outside?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was dark.
MR. HUBBARD: When you got there how many vehicles did you see?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was three. Two patrol cars, a black Escalade.
MR. HUBBARD: When you got out of your vehicle -- did you park on the same side of the road as those vehicles?
MARTY PATTERSON: No. I parked on the opposite side of the road. I would have been heading West. Correction. I would have been headed East.
MR. HUBBARD: When you got out of your vehicle at some point, your patrol car at some point what, if anything, did you notice?
MARTY PATTERSON: As I was walking up to the black Escalade I noticed a fowl odor coming from somewhere and I asked -- or made the statement, probably to one of the deputies, what is that smell. And they said it was coming out of the vehicle, in reference to the Escalade. As I approached the Escalade I could smell it more strongly. The driver's window was down, and immediately I knew it wasn't a chemical smell from what they thought it was. The chemicals to make crystal methamphetamines. It was the smell of decompensation (sic).
MR. HUBBARD: Decomposition?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Decay?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Being in law enforcement 38 years you've smelled that smell before?
MARTY PATTERSON: I have. It's a smell that you don't forget.
MR. HUBBARD: That's the smell you smelled that night?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct. And I call it the smell of death.
MR. HUBBARD: The smell of death?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: So that short walk across the street you determined it wasn't meth, it was death?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct. Immediately.
MR. HUBBARD: Did you take a look inside that Escalade?
MARTY PATTERSON: I did. I didn't open any doors or anything. I said it was already dark. I had a flashlight and I walked around the Escalade. I saw what looked like some trash bag, maybe some clothing. I saw some chemicals. There was some bleach. Maybe a little can of muriatic acid. There was several cans of bleach. Some charcoal lighter fluid. I saw a five gallon -- looked like a five gallon bucket in there that looked like it had a roll of tape and a saw and maybe a mask or something. And then as I proceeded around the vehicle looking in I saw spots, a pretty big area behind the driver and passenger seat on the carpet that appeared to be where they'd poured bleach onto that carpet. So, you know, that ran a flag up for me. You know, why would anybody pour bleach in a Cadillac Escalade ruining the carpet. And while I was looking through there I saw a spot behind the driver's seat of what appeared to be blood and was later determined to be blood.
MR. HUBBARD: While you were out on the side of the road looking in that vehicle where was the driver?
MARTY PATTERSON: The driver was in the backseat of one of the patrol vehicles.
MR. HUBBARD: The driver, Mr. Timothy Jones, who's sitting in this courtroom?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: So he was still on scene but he was in a patrol car?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: While you were on the side of the road did you have an opportunity to have a conversation with law enforcement back in South Carolina?
MARTY PATTERSON: I did. Deputy Johnson advised me that they had had a hit on the vehicle through NCIC, which is the National Crime Information Center, and I believe he explained that earlier. Deputy Laintz. Well, when we first got the hit the first thing that happened was our office contacted Lexington, and they were conversing and I told them to ask the Deputy to call me on my cell phone because I was on the scene. Deputy Laintz called me and we talked a few minutes and he asked about some -- the children and --
MR. HUBBARD: I'm going to ask you right there. So you're on the side of the road on your cell phone?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Talking to Deputy Jesse Laintz and you heard earlier?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: This officer right here?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: At that point you'd never met him before?
MR. HUBBARD: That's who you were talking to that night --
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: -- on the side of the road?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: What information was South Carolina, Lexington, looking for from you?
MARTY PATTERSON: They were worried about the safety of the children and the well-being of the children, if the children were with him, and I told him I didn't see any children. I told him to hang on.
MR. HUBBARD: How many children were they looking for?
MARTY PATTERSON: Five. So I sent Officer McClellan back to the vehicle to ask him about his children and --
MR. HUBBARD: Asked who?
MARTY PATTERSON: Asked Mr. Jones about the whereabouts of his children.
MR. HUBBARD: What was the response from Mr. Jones?
MARTY PATTERSON: The response was that he didn't have any children. So immediately I told Officer Laintz that he advised he didn't have any children. And I told my officer to go back and ask him again.
MR. HUBBARD: What was Mr. Jones' response the second time?
MARTY PATTERSON: The second time he responded that he only had three children and they were in South Carolina with their mother. So I relayed that to Lieutenant Laintz and he advised me that they weren't with their mother because they had already been looking for them.
MR. HUBBARD: So let's stop right there for a minute. You're on the side of the road. Lexington County is looking for five kids and you don't see them?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: You put that question to Mr. Jones twice that night?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: The first response zero, no kids?
MARTY PATTERSON: No children.
MR. HUBBARD: Second response three kids, they're with the mother?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: And now you know they're not with the mother?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Red flags for you, Officer Patterson?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes. I have the smell of death. I've got five children that are unaccounted for. I've got bleach poured into the back of a Cadillac Escalade. I've got this -- you know, the odor. So yes, it run up a flag pretty, pretty quick.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, when you got out was he already under arrest?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes. I assume that he was.
MR. HUBBARD: But you know that night he was placed under arrest?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Is that the DUI and the spice?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Was he transported back to headquarters?
MARTY PATTERSON: He was.
MR. HUBBARD: And did you have an opportunity to walk him through booking?
MARTY PATTERSON: I did.
MR. HUBBARD: That's the process you go through to go to the jail?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, with everyone.
MR. HUBBARD: Let me ask you this --
MARTY PATTERSON: Prior --
MR. HUBBARD: Well, go ahead. Go ahead.
MARTY PATTERSON: Prior to that I had stopped our deputies from doing any search of the vehicle. And I wanted to take this off of the side of the road where it was safer for everyone and take it back to our Sheriff's Department where we could sit down and talk and have a conversation to see if we couldn't figure all this out.
MR. HUBBARD: All right. Let me ask you this. The vehicle, what did you direct for the vehicle?
MARTY PATTERSON: I called our dispatch and got them to send a local wrecker and the wrecker came. We were still on the scene waiting on the wrecker. We loaded the Escalade onto the wrecker, and I sent another deputy to the location that we sent it, which was the Smith County multipurpose building, to stay with it and to not let any -- anybody touch it or get around it or anything else to it.
MR. HUBBARD: So you directed somebody to sit on that vehicle 24/7?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, let me ask you. When you walked him through booking what, if anything, did Mr. Jones say to you?
MARTY PATTERSON: Okay. We went through the booking process and got through and I told him that I wanted to talk to him about the children and he said, "All you need to know is in the SUV."
MR. HUBBARD: Everything -- any question you had you'd get your answer in that car?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Who actually did the search on that Cadillac Escalade?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was the Mississippi Bureau of Investigation. Their crime lab team.
MR. HUBBARD: Is that kind of like South Carolina SLED?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: And were you there when they were going through that vehicle?
MARTY PATTERSON: I was. That was the next morning.
MR. HUBBARD: So this would be on the 7th?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct, when they arrived.
MR. HUBBARD: Do you recall taking photos of receipts pulled out of the vehicle?
MARTY PATTERSON: I did, and I sent them to Lieutenant Laintz.
MR. HUBBARD: Can I ask you what was the purpose of doing that?
MARTY PATTERSON: The purpose of that was to get him locations, stops that Mr. Jones had made to where he could put together some type of map or try to follow so, you know, maybe we could locate the children. We were still concerned about the children. They hadn't turned up and, you know, we didn't know if some of them were hurt, if they needed medical attention. We didn't know.
MR. HUBBARD: I'm going to show you photographs, State's 61 through 69. Do these look like the receipts that you took photos of that morning?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Your Honor, I offer these into evidence.
THE COURT: Subject to your objection.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
(Whereupon, State's Exhibit numbers 61 through 69 were admitted into evidence.)
MR. HUBBARD: Just going through these -- are those two receipts from Dunkin Donuts?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: The date on these is September 1st?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: And I want to show you the receipt from RaceTrac, which is State's 62, which is September 2nd in Athens, Georgia?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: State's 63, a receipt from Walmart on Augusta Road here in Lexington County, September 3rd. Do you see that?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: I'm using my pointer. I can't use that other thing. Now, this other receipt, Community Neighbor Bank, that's in Camden, Alabama. That's --
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: -- on the 6th? That's the day of the stop, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: The time is 13:06.
MARTY PATTERSON: That would be 1:06 in the afternoon.
MR. HUBBARD: Okay, 1:06. So that's sometime before you guys got a hold of him?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: You got Advanced Auto Parts from September 3rd, and then an Exxon Station in Camden, South Carolina September 4th, State's 64. You pulled those as well and took those photos?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: State's 65, a receipt from the Dollar General Store. It looks like it's on the 4th of September. And that's in Orangeburg which is in South Carolina. You found that in the vehicle as well?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: September 4th, two receipts from Federal Credit Union?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: There's two more from 67?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: State's 68, a Taco Bell from the day of this incident --
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: -- September 6th at 6:09. State's 68, you found that one and took that one?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: State's 69, a receipt from Greenville, Alabama from Bypass Food Mart. You took that one as well?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: And then the one next to it again is that Camden, that bank?
MARTY PATTERSON: Bank, correct.
MR. HUBBARD: From, 1:06?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was about seven hours prior to the stop.
MR. HUBBARD: All those were found in his vehicle?
MARTY PATTERSON: They were.
MR. HUBBARD: And what did you do with these receipts?
MARTY PATTERSON: I took photographs of them and I sent them to -- text them to Lieutenant Laintz in South Carolina, Lexington.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, later that day on the 7th, September 7th, did the Sheriff come back in town on the 7th?
MARTY PATTERSON: He did.
MR. HUBBARD: Did you all have an opportunity to conduct an interview with Mr. Jones?
MARTY PATTERSON: We did.
MR. HUBBARD: Do you remember someone from MBI coming to help conduct that interview?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes. It was Lieutenant Eric Johnson.
MR. HUBBARD: Who else showed up for that interview?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was Tim Jones, Sr.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, do you know -- if you don't, that's fine. But do you know how he got involved in this process?
MARTY PATTERSON: I believe Lieutenant Johnson had contacted him by phone.
MR. HUBBARD: And did he live in Mississippi?
MARTY PATTERSON: He did.
MR. HUBBARD: So he was present for this interview on the 7th?
MARTY PATTERSON: He was.
MR. HUBBARD: Do you all typically take in an interview a parent of a suspect before you question them?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Have you all -- do you all generally do that, or was this unusual for him, having a father of someone --
MARTY PATTERSON: It was unusual.
MR. HUBBARD: What was your main concern, you had a spice charge, a DUI charge. Officer Patterson, did you really care about those charges?
MARTY PATTERSON: Never asked him about those charges. My concern was five children that were unaccounted for.
MR. HUBBARD: Well, let me ask you. You smelled what you called death out on that scene?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Why didn't you just stop and say these kids are dead, we've just got to find bodies?
MARTY PATTERSON: Well, very simple. I didn't know if maybe one child was dead, four of them were still alive. If he had put them out beside the road. If the wild dogs, the coyotes had got them. If one of them was injured, needed medical attention. We didn't know.
MR. HUBBARD: So you had to look?
MARTY PATTERSON: I had to look. That's my job. That's my job. I had to look, and I'm a father and a grandfather.
MR. HUBBARD: Is that part of wearing that badge?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's part of wearing that badge, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: Mr. Jones, the father, Mr. Jones, Sr.
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Did you all have to twist his arm to get him to come down and assist?
MARTY PATTERSON: No, sir. He was very cooperative. Very cooperative.
MR. HUBBARD: Did he want to know where those children were as well?
MARTY PATTERSON: He did. He was a caring grandfather, and father.
MR. HUBBARD: Where did you all conduct this interview?
MARTY PATTERSON: We conducted the interview in the Circuit Court Court House.
MR. HUBBARD: Is that just right near in the Sheriff's Office?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes. It's adjacent to the Sheriff's Department, yes. We had more room over there.
MR. HUBBARD: Where did you all go in the Court House?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was upstairs into one of the break rooms that we have there.
MR. HUBBARD: A place where you would kind of have some privacy to have a talk like this?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Before any questions were asked what, if anything, did Lieutenant Johnson do and go over with Mr. Jones?
MARTY PATTERSON: Lieutenant Johnson began to go over reading him his Miranda rights, what his rights were, and Tim, Jr. took the Miranda form and began to read it aloud, and he read the whole thing.
MR. HUBBARD: When he read it out loud did he read it -- just read it to himself?
MARTY PATTERSON: He read it aloud to us.
MR. HUBBARD: Had you ever seen that before?
MARTY PATTERSON: Never have.
MR. HUBBARD: How was he acting?
MARTY PATTERSON: He was acting -- I don't know really how to say it. He was bouncing off the wall just everywhere.
MR. HUBBARD: Emotionally?
MARTY PATTERSON: Emotionally. And from him talking, I was under the impression that he thought that he was, his intelligence was superior to ours.
MR. HUBBARD: Was that part of that reading the Miranda form to you?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was.
MR. HUBBARD: Let you know he knew how to read?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was.
MR. HUBBARD: When he, you said bouncing off the walls. But is he moving around or is he just -- are you all siting down talking?
MARTY PATTERSON: Well, it was just, you know, his head motions and talking, and every now and then he'd blurt out and go up here and then he'd come back down to here.
MR. HUBBARD: How did he appear, appearance-wise?
MARTY PATTERSON: He was sweating. And I didn't --
MR. HUBBARD: When you say sweating --
MARTY PATTERSON: Sir?
MR. HUBBARD: When you say sweating, was it just like he's kind of hot?
MARTY PATTERSON: No. He was more or less profusely sweating. It was kind of odd because it was cool. I mean, we had the air conditioner on. It was cool in there and he was just -- just pouring sweat. And, you know, I really haven't, I have since, but spice was something that was relatively new to us. He wasn't acting like someone that was on marijuana, and he wasn't acting like someone that was on crystal methamphetamine.
MR. HUBBARD: Since this case did you have an opportunity to deal with other folks on spice?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, I have.
MR. HUBBARD: Would you say his behavior was consistent with theirs?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, very much so.
MR. HUBBARD: Including the sweating?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, very much so.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, let me ask you. When the Miranda form was read did he seem to understand his rights? He read it back to you.
MARTY PATTERSON: Oh, he very well understood his rights.
MR. HUBBARD: And when a question would be asked, you say he's bouncing off the walls emotionally, but is he able to answer questions?
MARTY PATTERSON: He was answering directly, yes.
MR. HUBBARD: So there is a conversation?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: You're not just talking to somebody who's so out of it they don't understand you?
MARTY PATTERSON: Oh, no. No. He was very well aware of what he was doing.
MR. HUBBARD: Beg the Court's indulgence.
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: Officer Patterson, I just want to ask you. Who was the primary interviewer, as far as law enforcement is concerned, in this interview?
MARTY PATTERSON: Lieutenant Johnson.
MR. HUBBARD: He's here?
MARTY PATTERSON: He is.
MR. HUBBARD: Did Tim Jones, Sr., the father of Mr. Jones, did he participate in it?
MARTY PATTERSON: He did.
MR. HUBBARD: He actively asked questions?
MARTY PATTERSON: He did. He was very concerned. He was trying to help us to locate the children, the whereabouts of them. If they were safe. He was very, very helpful to us.
MR. HUBBARD: At the end of this interview had Mr. Jones given any information about where these kids were?
MR. HUBBARD: What, if anything, does Tim Jones, Sr. ask his son in your presence when this interview has ended?
MARTY PATTERSON: He asked his son, I can't tell you verbatim what he said, but he asked him, "Son, what -- where are the children. What has happened to the children. Are the children okay. Have you done something to the children," and Tim, Jr. reached over to his father and put his hand on his throat, and then he took it down. Not choking his father, but he --
MR. HUBBARD: The following day did an officer from Lexington County and another officer from South Carolina come down?
MARTY PATTERSON: They did.
MR. HUBBARD: Along with an FBI agent?
MARTY PATTERSON: They did.
MR. HUBBARD: Did they interview him on that day?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: So this would be -- you talked to him on the 7th. But on the 8th, that's when they conducted an interview?
MARTY PATTERSON: I believe that's correct, yes. The next day, yeah.
MR. HUBBARD: The next day when you saw Mr. Jones did he look anything like he did on the 7th?
MARTY PATTERSON: Oh, no. No.
MR. HUBBARD: What was the change?
MARTY PATTERSON: His demeanor. He wasn't sweating. Like he -- he'd come down off the spice is what I'm saying, or whatever he was on.
MR. HUBBARD: On the 7th when you were talking to him and he was sweating, did you see anything like foaming at the mouth, or frothing?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, frothing, and his hair was soaking wet. And like I said, it was cool in there. And again, we had never seen a lot of spice and --
MR. HUBBARD: But you have since?
MARTY PATTERSON: But we have since, yes. It was fairly new at that time.
MR. HUBBARD: The next day though he looked fine?
MARTY PATTERSON: He looked fine, yes.
MR. HUBBARD: September 9th, do you remember taking a trip to Alabama?
MARTY PATTERSON: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: What was the purpose of that trip?
MARTY PATTERSON: He had told us that he would take us to the bodies of the children, and that's what we done.
MR. HUBBARD: How far was that trip?
MARTY PATTERSON: About 200 miles from where we were, from Raleigh.
MR. HUBBARD: When you left did you have any idea it was that far away?
MARTY PATTERSON: No, absolutely not. It was in a rural area where we found the bodies.
MR. HUBBARD: Let me ask you this about that rural area. When you were traveling all that distance did you all at any time make -- take any wrong turns?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, we take, took one wrong turn. Timothy, Jr. was with us, and he indicated that a road that we needed to go up and we went up that road. And just about the time we got on the road he said no, this is not it. This is not it. So we came back to the main highway and continued on, and probably the next road, or not very far down the road, he said this road right here, and we went up that road and he said there. The bodies are right there, and they were.
MR. HUBBARD: About how far from that wrong turn to the -- to the right, proper turn? Was it a mile or less?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was a little over a mile, but it wasn't that far, I don't think, because I was lost to begin with.
MR. HUBBARD: When you say a road that you turned off on, was it really a road?
MARTY PATTERSON: It was a log road.
MR. HUBBARD: When he took you all that long distance he only took one wrong turn?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct, and he immediately --
MR. HUBBARD: And he corrected himself?
MARTY PATTERSON: -- and he immediately knew that that wasn't the road.
MR. HUBBARD: When you found those children what, if anything, were they in?
MARTY PATTERSON: They were in black plastic garbage bags.
MR. HUBBARD: Were they right on the side of the road?
MARTY PATTERSON: No. They were laying in a -- apparently they had been doing some logging there and it looked like a brush top, and the bags were thrown over in the brush top.
MR. HUBBARD: By that point was SLED from South Carolina on the scene?
MARTY PATTERSON: They were.
MR. HUBBARD: What did you all do with Mr. Jones at that time once you all located the bodies?
MARTY PATTERSON: Once we located the bodies we carried Mr. Jones back to Smith County.
MR. HUBBARD: You all didn't keep him on scene for any time?
MARTY PATTERSON: No. No. And we done that for his safety, too, because we didn't know. So we carried him on back.
MR. HUBBARD: Let me ask you this. Were there a lot of officers showing up from all over the place at that point?
MARTY PATTERSON: There was a lot of officers showing up --
MR. HUBBARD: Was it part of your job --
MARTY PATTERSON: -- from everywhere.
MR. HUBBARD: -- part of your job was to actually protect Mr. Jones?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, that's part of our job is to protect Mr. Jones.
MR. HUBBARD: You took him back to his cell?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Officer Patterson, I think that's all that I've got at this point. Your Honor, at this time I think I'm just going to stop there.
THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Secor?
CROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Secor:
MR. SECOR: Good afternoon, Undersheriff.
MARTY PATTERSON: Good afternoon, Mr. Secor.
MR. SECOR: Is it all right if I still call you Undersheriff?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: Thank you. Undersheriff, I'm just going to first ask you to identify a couple of documents for me, if you would, that you've identified before at the previous hearing. I'm just going to show you what's been marked for -- just for identification purposes as Court's Exhibit 19 and 20 and just ask you if you'd just look at them and ask you if you recognize them?
MARTY PATTERSON: I do. This is a booking sheet for the Smith County jail and our inmates. It's number 19.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And just tell the jury, this is a, it's from Smith County jail, your facility?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct. It's a booking sheet.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And for what inmate?
MARTY PATTERSON: It's for Timothy Jones, Jr.
MR. SECOR: And which dates?
MARTY PATTERSON: Where are the dates at on here? 9/6 of '14.
MR. SECOR: Okay. That was the day he was arrested.
MARTY PATTERSON: The light's a little dim in here.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir. And then this is the same booking sheet for what date?
MARTY PATTERSON: 9/9.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And it's for, also for Tim?
MARTY PATTERSON: Timothy Jones, Jr. Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And that one's 9/10?
MARTY PATTERSON: 9/10. That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And that's also for Tim?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: All right. And these are the actual booking forms used by your department for when an inmate comes into the jail. Is that right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Can I see those?
MR. SECOR: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah.
MR. HUBBARD: Thank you.
MR. SECOR: Undersheriff, I'm just going to ask you to hold this for a second. Those are the booking sheets for Tim. And the purpose of those booking sheets is that anytime somebody comes in and out of the facility somebody does one of those sheets. Is that correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: It's filled out by law enforcement who is a member of the Smith County Sheriff's Department, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: Okay. Thank you. And then I just ask you if you recognize, that's Court's Exhibit 20.
MARTY PATTERSON: I do recognize this.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And those -- those are logs for the suicide watch cell at your jail?
MARTY PATTERSON: This is a log, let me try to clarify something, Mr. --
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
MARTY PATTERSON: -- Mr. Secor. When we have someone in, that we put in our jail that's on some type of narcotics or whatever, we put them on a watch.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
MARTY PATTERSON: Not necessarily a suicide watch. Suicide watch, yes, we do that, but it's only if somebody -- we think they're a threat to their self.
MR. SECOR: I understand.
MARTY PATTERSON: So we only have one form.
MR. SECOR: I understand.
MARTY PATTERSON: So, but to answer your question, that's what this is.
MR. SECOR: Okay. Thank you. And it would be for Timothy Jones, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And it would be for the entire date of the 6th of September, 2014, the 7th of 2014 -- I mean, September 7th of 2014, and September 8th, 2014?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And, Your Honor, might I get these marked as Defendant's Exhibits?
THE COURT: You may.
COURT REPORTER: They will be 8 and 9. 8 will be the booking sheet and 9 will be the logs.
THE COURT: And those will be admitted?
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. HUBBARD: No, sir.
THE COURT: They're admitted without objection.
MR. SECOR: 8 and 9?
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: Thank you, sir.
(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit numbers 8 and 9 were admitted into evidence.)
MR. SECOR: Undersheriff, I'm just going to ask you to review a few things that are on this form. This is the form we were talking about, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And this is a form that's filled out by an officer from the Smith County Sheriff's Department when somebody's brought into the jail, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And I just wanted to point out a couple of things. Obviously this is for Tim Jones on the 6th of September, 2014, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And if you go to question two there --
THE COURT: Mr. Secor, is that in focus anymore? I'm -- maybe I'm blind.
MR. SECOR: Let me zoom in.
THE COURT: I don't know if you've got to zoom in, but it's got an auto focus that I've seen work from time to time. Can you see it?
MARTY PATTERSON: I can now.
MR. SECOR: And I just want, I just want the jury to see, Undersheriff, it says that, the question there that's being asked of the officer filling out the form, "Does this inmate appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol," and that appears to be checked yes, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: Appears to be, yes.
MR. SECOR: And that's the night that he was -- that he was arrested at the -- at the checkpoint and brought to Smith County for the first time?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: Now, also if you go down to question number seven, "Does the inmate appear to have any psychiatric problems," that appears to be checked no, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And that's by the officer who's bringing him into the facility that night?
MARTY PATTERSON: I don't know if it was the officer that brought him in or if it may have been one of our ladies there that dispatches.
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
MARTY PATTERSON: We're a real small department and we were in our old jail, and when they come in, you know, our dispatcher is sitting right there --
MR. SECOR: Yes, sir.
MARTY PATTERSON: -- and sometimes they help fill out the paperwork.
MR. SECOR: I understand.
MARTY PATTERSON: But it was filled out by someone in our department, yes.
MR. SECOR: And these, this form that we have that's for the 6th, and we also have a form for the 9th and for the 10th, obviously Tim was with you all on the 7th and 8th?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: Is that correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: And you don't have any idea where the intake forms might have been for the 7th or the 8th?
MR. SECOR: And I just bring that up to say that you don't know what happened to the forms on the 7th and the 8th. I'm not -- I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. We just never got them and you don't know where they are, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: No, I don't.
MR. SECOR: I just want to point out, this is the form for the 9th, right, and he was still with you, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And if we can just go to the same questions that we went to before. Does he, "Does the inmate appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol," and it would be checked no there, right? Just the opposite of what it was on the 6th --
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: -- correct? And on the 7th the question is, "Does the inmate appear to have psychiatric problems," and it's checked yes. And before on the 6th it had checked no. Is that right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: This is the form for the 10th, and he's still with the Sheriff's Department there. And if we go to those two same questions again, "Does the inmate appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol," no. That would be consistent with the day before, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: But inconsistent with his first day there?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And then question number seven, "Does the inmate appear to have psychiatric problems and it's checked yes again, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: So based on these forms that are filled out by law enforcement, it seems like the person who's taking this information in feels like he's getting less high over time, which would make sense.
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: But more mentally ill, potentially?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes. But it could have been one or more persons filling those out.
MR. SECOR: I understand that. But that's what the forms indicate, right? Undersheriff, when Solicitor Hubbard was talking to you he said that Tim Jones, Jr. -- you know Tim Jones, Sr.? You've known him for a while, haven't you, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: You see him here today, right, with his wife, Julie?
MARTY PATTERSON: He is.
MR. SECOR: The Solicitor said that he showed up in Smith County.
MARTY PATTERSON: Uh-huh.
MR. SECOR: He was asked to come to Smith County, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, he was.
MR. SECOR: By Eric Johnson?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: An officer with the Mississippi Bureau of Investigations?
MARTY PATTERSON: I believe that's correct. They talked. I don't -- I don't know what the conversation was. But I seen that, yes.
MR. SECOR: But Agent Johnson called him -- called Big Tim, Tim, Sr., because he wanted Big Tim's help?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: You all wanted Big Tim's help, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct, we did.
MR. SECOR: And on the 6th when you had Tim at the jail, Big Tim was ready and willing to come from Amory? Amory was about three hours from you. Isn't that about right? Amory is about --
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: -- a three hour drive? And he was willing to come that night, even though it was late that night?
MARTY PATTERSON: He was.
MR. SECOR: And as a matter of fact, he even started on his way to Raleigh that night?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's what I understand.
MR. SECOR: But somebody told him at some point don't bother coming tonight, come tomorrow?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And the next day Tim, Sr., Big Tim, came to Raleigh with his wife Julie, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And these are the father and stepmother of Tim, the person you have in custody, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And they are also the grandparents on their father's side of the five little kids, little children, you eventually find out had been killed, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And they're there because they want to help?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And you told them when they arrived that Tim had not been cooperative with you in terms of talking to you at that point, telling you, wanted to know, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: I can't remember if I said that or not. I'm not saying I didn't.
MR. SECOR: I understand.
MARTY PATTERSON: But I don't remember.
MR. SECOR: But you tried to talk to Tim on the night of the 6th when he was arrested?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And that didn't get -- it didn't get anywhere?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And you didn't try to talk to him again until after Tim and Julie arrived --
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, sir. Correct.
MR. SECOR: And they were actively trying to help you?
MARTY PATTERSON: They were.
MR. SECOR: And they wanted to know what had happened to their grandbabies?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: And they wanted to know what was going on with Tim?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: And in helping you, and in their willingness to work with you and other officers, they never asked for anything in return for that assistance, did they?
MR. SECOR: They just did it because they wanted to?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's what I feel like.
MR. SECOR: At least that's your impression, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's what I feel like.
MR. SECOR: That night on the 7th, this is the second night that Tim -- I'm trying to distinguish between Big Tim and Little Tim.
MARTY PATTERSON: Tim, Sr.
MR. SECOR: Tim, Sr. Thank you. The 7th is the second night that Tim, Jr. was with you as an -- as an inmate, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And Tim, Sr. and Julie are there, and you go, or you bring Tim, Jr. to the Court House to interview him, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And present for that interview was you, Sheriff Crumpton, Special Agent Johnson, and Tim, Sr., and Tim, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And during the course of that interview Tim was, as you said, bouncing off the walls?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: And he was foaming at the mouth?
MARTY PATTERSON: Somewhat, yes.
MR. SECOR: I'm sorry?
MARTY PATTERSON: Somewhat, yes.
MR. SECOR: And sometimes screaming and crying?
MARTY PATTERSON: He was.
MR. SECOR: And sometimes not making any sense at all?
MARTY PATTERSON: Sometimes he probably wasn't making any sense, to me.
MR. SECOR: And you made notes about the interview. You were there taking part in it, but you made notes, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes. I was in and out.
MR. SECOR: May I approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
MR. SECOR: Undersheriff, I'm just going to get you a copy of your handwritten notes. And if you don't, if you don't need them, don't bother with them. And the reason why I bring those up is because some of the things that you have in your notes seem important to me for the jury to know about what was being said by Tim during that conversation.
MARTY PATTERSON: Uh-huh.
MR. SECOR: During that interview.
MR. HUBBARD: I would ask for a question.
MR. SECOR: I'm getting there.
MR. HUBBARD: Ask a question.
THE COURT: Ask your question, sir.
MR. SECOR: He said during that interview that there were voices in his head that his mother had put into his head, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: He did.
MR. SECOR: And his mom was crazy and that he one time seen her fighting with a dead person, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And he compared himself to his mother, who is mentally ill?
MARTY PATTERSON: He did.
MR. SECOR: And in your notes you wrote, and this is what you wrote, "He thinks the kids want to kill him," right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: He talked about electrical outlets in his trailer in South Carolina and about his son, Nahtahn, maybe getting electrocuted by it, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: Something about Nahtahn maybe sticking his tongue into an electrical socket in the trailer in South Carolina, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And that kind of stuff, I assume, didn't make a whole lot of sense to you?
MR. SECOR: And you didn't write in your notes this sounds made up or he sounds like he's lying? You never wrote that in your notes, right?
MR. SECOR: Now, when Solicitor Hubbard was talking to you he said something -- something along the lines of how Tim didn't really say anything to you during that interview on the 7th about what happened, or didn't make any kinds of admissions. I'm not sure of, I can't remember the exact words. But it was something --
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: -- like that, right? But isn't it true that things were said by Tim, Jr., when talking to Tim, Sr., that indicated to you that the kids were dead?
MARTY PATTERSON: Indicated that maybe one of them might be, some of them might be. We just didn't know.
MR. SECOR: But at one point Tim, Sr. said to him, "Did you hurt the kids," and Tim said yes and then said no, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: I don't recall.
MR. SECOR: Then at one time didn't Tim, Jr. say, "I'll take you to them."?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: Now, you attempted to talk to Tim the night that he was arrested at the checkpoint. That didn't go anywhere. And then the next, the 7th, after about -- approximately 24 hours had gone by.
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: The only real difference in terms of those two interviews from Tim's perspective was that his dad was there for the second one, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: Because on the night of the 6th there was a bunch of sheriff deputies and undersheriff that he didn't know?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: Same on the 7th, except his dad was there then?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yeah.
MR. SECOR: And you give Tim, Sr. and Julie a lot of credit for the strength that they showed that night, don't you?
MARTY PATTERSON: I really do.
MR. SECOR: A couple of things I wanted to just try to clarify, but let me do this first, if I may.
MR. SECOR: Your Honor, I just ask for permission to publish Defendant's Exhibit 9, if I may.
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. SECOR: Undersheriff, this is the form we were talking about earlier that's called the suicide watch cell log form. I understand your description to the jury, but that's what this is?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: And this would be for Tim Jones and dated up there the 6th of September. That's the night he's arrested, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And if you look down there at the bottom, it looks like he gets in there about 10:15 p.m. Is that about right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And it's checked off by an officer that he's seen every 15 minutes, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: And then the following day, that's the 7th of September, 2014, and it's checked there. And I think the line through, it started about 11:45 is when Tim was taken to the hospital for the blood sample and things, I believe? Does that sound right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's what it appears, yes.
MR. SECOR: And other than that it's checked every 15 minutes until 6:15 when it says Court House. That's when the interview occurred with the Sheriff and Eric Johnson and Tim, Sr., right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And then the 8th, the same form. Checked every 15 minutes by an officer of Smith County Sheriff's Department with, I guess, some sort of description about what he's doing at those times. Is that correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: When you were talking to Solicitor Hubbard you were talking about how the way that Tim was acting on the 7th, the second day he's there. To you, based on your subsequent experience, that is indicative of somebody who's on spice, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: That's what you told the Solicitor. And certainly, I mean, he'd been there for about 24 hours at that point in time, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And certainly having been on suicide watch, or being monitored every 15 minutes, he wasn't smoking any spice at the Smith County jail, right?
MR. SECOR: Okay. And the night he was arrested, the 6th, Deputy Johnson testified that that night that the can was found in the car was warm. Did you, did you know that?
MR. SECOR: The inference being that obviously it had been freshly used, right? That's why somebody was saying a can like that has been modified to smoke out of because it had been freshly used?
MARTY PATTERSON: I would agree with that.
MR. SECOR: Yeah. But on the night of the 6th when you interviewed him, he was not frothing at the mouth, screaming, crying, hysterical like he was on the 7th, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: No, uh-uh.
MR. SECOR: Thirty-eight years in law enforcement, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: I imagine in that time you've seen practically everything you could imagine?
MARTY PATTERSON: Pretty much.
MR. SECOR: Hope to never see, I would assume. And you interrogated -- interrogated or interviewed or questioned suspects in a variety of different types of incidences, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And you have certainly interviewed people who were drunk?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And you've certainly interviewed people who were high?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And you've certainly interviewed people who are mentally ill?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And you've certainly interviewed people who were mentally ill and high and drunk all at the same time?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And it's still fair to say that you have never and have never seen anything like you saw in Tim Jones on the night of September 7th, 2014?
MARTY PATTERSON: No. I had not seen anything prior to that, but I have since then.
MR. SECOR: You've seen behavior the exact same?
MARTY PATTERSON: Pretty much, yes.
MR. SECOR: Can I have just a moment, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. SECOR: Undersheriff, the warrant that Smith County got for Tim to be brought to have the DNA or blood sample, DNA swab and hair sample taken was based, let me back up. When a law enforcement entity wants to take those types of samples from a suspect they ask a Judge?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. SECOR: And they have to give the Judge information about why they want that and sort of the -- you call it probable cause for wanting that?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And in the application for that warrant some of the information that's in that application was based on information that you've got to relay to other people in your department, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Could have been, yes.
MR. SECOR: Okay. I'm just going to show this to you after I show it to the Solicitor. This is from September 7th. Is this, well, let me show it to you first. And you can look through the other pages, obviously, to make sure of what it is. But just tell me if you recognize that.
MARTY PATTERSON: I recognize the form, yes. That's the underlying facts and circumstances.
MR. SECOR: Okay. And will you just read that highlighted portion of that?
MARTY PATTERSON: "Undersheriff Patterson contacted the authorities in South Carolina and Jones' father, Timothy Jones, Sr., both indicated that they were afraid Jones had harmed the children and he was on his way to take his own life."
MR. SECOR: Thank you sir. I appreciate it. There's one other thing that I'd like to talk to you about, Undersheriff, if I may. I'm just going to show you three, actually just two. I'm going to show you two maps and just ask you if you think that those are fair representations of a trip from Raleigh, Mississippi to Greenville, Alabama, and then the second one from Camden, Alabama to Greenville, Alabama.
MARTY PATTERSON: I would say it is. I've never been from there to there.
COURT REPORTER: I can't hear. A I've never been from Camden to Greenville that I know of.
MR. SECOR: Well, I think that night you went --
MARTY PATTERSON: From Raleigh to --
MR. SECOR: -- from Raleigh to Greenville, which is through Camden, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Okay. I guess, yeah.
MR. SECOR: All right.
MR. SECOR: And I just want to, I'm going to ask that these be marked, Your Honor, so I can publish for the jury.
MR. HUBBARD: No objection to them being entered into evidence.
THE COURT: Is there three of them?
MR. SECOR: Two. Two for the time being.
THE COURT: This will be 10 and 11?
COURT REPORTER: Yes, sir.
(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit numbers 10 and 11 were admitted into evidence.)
MR. SECOR: Undersheriff, when you collected the receipts from the vehicle, that was an important part of this puzzle for law enforcement, was it not?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And the reason was is you were trying to figure out where it was that the bodies of the Jones children might be, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And then you utilized the receipts to try to figure that out. When you were talking to Tim and saying, "When you stopped at this place, were the bodies still with you or were they not," and this -- this, of course is after he started telling you what you wanted to know?
MARTY PATTERSON: I don't believe I talked to him about that myself.
MR. SECOR: You don't? Okay.
MR. SECOR: But it would make sense that somebody did in terms of trying to figure out what --
MARTY PATTERSON: Possibly, yes.
MR. SECOR: And this is the map that we just talked about. And you agree with me that that's Raleigh, Mississippi there on the inside of the map just Southeast of Jackson?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: Can you see that well enough?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes, I can see it.
MR. SECOR: And then the end of that blue line is Greenville, Alabama, right. And that is the town where the, where the Jones children's bodies were found, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. SECOR: And I misspoke there. It was between Camden and Greenville where they were found. That was my mistake. I apologize. And the reason it was narrowed down that way is because there were receipts from both Camden and Greenville. So you remember that?
MARTY PATTERSON: I didn't have anything to do with putting that map together.
MR. SECOR: I understand you didn't. But you got the receipts out?
MARTY PATTERSON: I did.
MR. SECOR: Do you remember there were receipts from Camden --
MARTY PATTERSON: I did.
MR. SECOR: -- and they were -- go ahead.
MARTY PATTERSON: I did, but I didn't do anything with making the map. I merely took the pictures and sent them to South Carolina.
MR. SECOR: I understand. This map was not made by law enforcement. I'm not trying to say that. I'm just trying to give the jury an idea of where we're talking about. But this is Defendant's Exhibit 11. It just narrows down that map a little bit more with Camden, Alabama on the right, Greenville, Alabama on the left -- Greenville, Alabama on the right. There's a Pine Apple right there in the middle which is where the children's bodies were found. Would you agree with me on that?
MARTY PATTERSON: I agree with that.
MR. SECOR: And you had receipts from Greenville, Alabama and you had receipts from Camden, Alabama in the car, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: I believe that's correct, yes.
MR. SECOR: And Timmy had told you -- Tim, Jr. had told you that he had had the bodies in the car in Greenville and he made a stop, not when he was in Camden when he made a stop?
MARTY PATTERSON: I don't recall him telling me that. He may have told some of the other investigators.
MR. SECOR: Okay. I'm sorry. These are questions I have to ask somebody else. It's my fault not yours.
MR. SECOR: Thank you, sir.
MARTY PATTERSON: Thank you.
MR. HUBBARD: A few follow-up.
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. Hubbard:
MR. HUBBARD: I'm going to ask you a few questions. Let's go back to the booking real quick.
MARTY PATTERSON: Okay.
MR. HUBBARD: September 6th you all booked him in, he appeared to be high, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: You say it's not suicide watch, but that's where you put Tim because you only have one facility for that, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: Now, you were shown two other booking sheets. I think it was September 9th and September 10th.
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: At that point you all were watching him, correct? Continued watching him?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: He had to confessed to killing his babies by then, hadn't he?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: He wasn't high at that point, was he?
MR. HUBBARD: But you all were concerned for him at that point, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: When he had his father in the room September 7th, the interview you talked about --
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: -- was he extremely emotional with his father?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Was his father concerned he might commit suicide?
MARTY PATTERSON: Not that I know of.
MR. HUBBARD: Or do you remember that he conveyed that to you? Nor to you?
MARTY PATTERSON: I don't recall that. Not to me.
MR. HUBBARD: Okay. Now, the log. You saw that log, all those notations, okay, okay, okay. Do you remember ever seeing anything on there saying he's acting strange or acting, you know, psychotic? We need to take him to the hospital?
MR. HUBBARD: No notations like that?
MR. HUBBARD: In the statement we were talking about on the 7th when he's in there with his father --
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: -- what did he say he did with those kids?
MARTY PATTERSON: I don't remember that he said he done anything on that day. That was when he put his --
MR. HUBBARD: Hand to his father's --
MARTY PATTERSON: -- hand to his father's throat.
MR. HUBBARD: Do you remember anything about Walmart?
MARTY PATTERSON: Oh, he had said that he had put them out at Walmart a few miles from his house.
MR. HUBBARD: Here in Lexington?
MARTY PATTERSON: In Lexington. And that he had kicked one of them out while the vehicle was rolling.
MR. HUBBARD: So he gave you all these different stories?
MARTY PATTERSON: He gave several different stories.
MR. HUBBARD: But he never told you that night what he did with those kids?
MR. HUBBARD: And when his dad at the very end said, "Son, what did you do with the kids," is that when the hand to the throat?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: But he didn't try to hurt his dad?
MR. HUBBARD: Going to this map. It looks like about an hour distance between Camden and Greenville. Greenville is in Alabama. Is that right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Correct.
MR. HUBBARD: That's where that Bypass store, you remember hearing Ms. Watkins --
MARTY PATTERSON: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: -- talk about the Bypass?
MARTY PATTERSON: I do.
MR. HUBBARD: And then there was a receipt you found from Camden when he went to a bank?
MARTY PATTERSON: That's right.
MR. HUBBARD: So based on this, we know that the bodies were found around Pine Apple, correct?
MARTY PATTERSON: I believe that's correct.
MR. HUBBARD: An old logging road?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: Is that a rural area?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. HUBBARD: So when Ms. Watkins saw him looking out at that car in the parking lot, saw that Escalade in her parking lot and saw him looking out while he's in the store at that car in the parking lot, those kids were still in that car, weren't they?
MARTY PATTERSON: I would think so.
MR. HUBBARD: So while she was serving him, talking about that smell --
MARTY PATTERSON: The smell.
MR. HUBBARD: -- those babies were in that car?
MARTY PATTERSON: I believe they were.
MR. HUBBARD: Thank you, sir.
THE COURT: Anything else?
RECROSS-EXAMINATION By Mr. Secor:
MR. SECOR: And they were not in the car in Camden, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: I beg your pardon?
MR. SECOR: They were not in the car in Camden, right? Obviously, because if they were found in Pine Apple.
MARTY PATTERSON: If they were found prior to Camden, that would be right.
MR. SECOR: And how many roads connect Greenville and Camden?
MARTY PATTERSON: Sir, I'm not familiar with that area. I can't tell you that.
MR. SECOR: Based on this map there's only one, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: According to that map there's one major road.
MR. SECOR: Right. And that's the one you took, right? That's 10? That's the road along which the Jones children's bodies were found, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: I believe that's correct.
MR. SECOR: The Solicitor was talking to you about his ability to bring you right to the location, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. SECOR: You knew it was between Greenville and Camden, right?
MARTY PATTERSON: No, sir. I didn't.
MR. SECOR: Based on the receipts. Based on the fact that --
MARTY PATTERSON: We had the receipts, but yeah, I couldn't speak to that.
MR. SECOR: Thank you, sir.
MR. HUBBARD: I have no more questions, Your Honor. Thank you.
THE COURT: All right. Undersheriff, you may step down.
MARTY PATTERSON: Thank you, sir.
THE COURT: All right. Based on what I told the jury, we're done for today time wise?
MR. HUBBARD: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Okay. I told you about 5:30. We went a little bit over. That's just how it goes, but we got done with the witness. Go home, enjoy, get you something to eat, get some rest. Get you back here in the morning and start at the same time. So be here before 9:00. Get you here at 9:00. Remember, don't talk about the case. Not with your spouse, not with your family, not with anybody. No independent research. Do not peruse any of the media articles. There's plenty of attention out there. You all are getting it firsthand right here. It's going to be better than anything else out there. Please do not do that. I don't want that influencing you making a decision on this case. I want your decision influenced by what you hear in here. Nowhere else. See you in the morning.
(Whereupon, the jury was excused from open court for the day.)
THE COURT: For in the morning, I'm going to be here by 8:30. Joy will be here shortly after 8:00 like she was this morning. Help her, help you all by getting them premarked, both sides. She'll be here. Utilize her earlier.
MR. HUBBARD: Yes, sir.
MR. YOUNG: Yes, sir.
(Whereupon, the trial will resume the next morning at 9:00 a.m.)